Martial Power: the new class features

[dm4hire]

I'm personally disappointed in the book. My first thought was why wasn't half of this stuff included in the PHB to begin with. The ranger stuff is a toss, the rogue aspects are so-so, the fighter is meh (now an official word thanks to the Simpsons), and anyone playing a warlord not using the last feature from this book... "What are you thinking??" is all I can say. There are a mix of good powers and features in this book, but nothing solid that justifies seperating them into more than one book. I think a better approach would have been to follow the guidelines of 3.5 a little more when it comes to the purpose of splatbooks; core books provide all the meat while they provide the side salad.

This book begins the aspect of 4e I don't like, despite liking 4e. A lot of the stuff in this book should have been in the PHB instead of held back and placed in an overpriced book on its own. I hate to say it, but the book isn't worth 30, 20 is more like it which lucky for me is what I paid thanks to Amazon, but if I'd gone into an FLGS I'd be hard pressed to justify spending the full amount on it. Part of the problem is the layout being the same as the PHB, save the card format for the actual cards and not the book. Use the space more effectively and give us more content.

 

[Obryn]

This book begins the aspect of 4e I don't like, despite liking 4e. A lot of the stuff in this book should have been in the PHB instead of held back and placed in an overpriced book on its own. I hate to say it, but the book isn't worth 30, 20 is more like it which lucky for me is what I paid thanks to Amazon, but if I'd gone into an FLGS I'd be hard pressed to justify spending the full amount on it. Part of the problem is the layout being the same as the PHB, save the card format for the actual cards and not the book. Use the space more effectively and give us more content.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more...

I think Martial Power has the opposite problem - it's too much stuff. It's kind of overwhelming, IMHO... Any more and my and my players' heads would spin. I'm hard-pressed to think of a pre-4e book which had this amount of sheer crunch in it, apart from maybe Spell Compendium.

I don't think this should have been in the PHB... I think it's a clear expansion, and great for folks who like more options, but you could run a game for years and years without any of it, and be fine.

-O

 

[WalterKovacs]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more...

I think Martial Power has the opposite problem - it's too much stuff. It's kind of overwhelming, IMHO... Any more and my and my players' heads would spin. I'm hard-pressed to think of a pre-4e book which had this amount of sheer crunch in it, apart from maybe Spell Compendium.

I don't think this should have been in the PHB... I think it's a clear expansion, and great for folks who like more options, but you could run a game for years and years without any of it, and be fine.

-O

Also some of it seems to be responding to many complaints from the PHB's release, making race matter, and encouraging paragon multiclassing, lack of feat options, etc.

 

[Zaukrie]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more...

I think Martial Power has the opposite problem - it's too much stuff. It's kind of overwhelming, IMHO... Any more and my and my players' heads would spin. I'm hard-pressed to think of a pre-4e book which had this amount of sheer crunch in it, apart from maybe Spell Compendium.

I don't think this should have been in the PHB... I think it's a clear expansion, and great for folks who like more options, but you could run a game for years and years without any of it, and be fine.

-O

I agree with this statement. This is a great book, and if this much had been in the PHB (plus more arcane and divine info) the PHB would have been unmanagably large and overwhelming.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Sounds like the rogue option is a steaming pile. I suppose the powers that give bonuses for the path could be good, but that just reduces the number of new rogue powers for people who realise that the option sucks. Considering the existence of the rapier and superior crossbow, a mace is not a good weapon.

Perhaps if the path allowed the addition of con to damage for rattling powers instead of strength(so there's some synergy with hammer rhythm), or replaced the rogue weapon talent, it might be worthwhile.

Battlerager vigor sounds like a no brainer. People keep bringing up the fact that you're less accurate, but I don't think it's nearly enough to balance it. It really is only a 1 point difference in accuracy. It's not necessary to focus on con and hammers: you're still getting a substantial benefit.

 

[Cadfan]

I don't have the book yet, but isn't the new at will Rattling? Wouldn't using a mace for the new rogue build mean that your most basic attack would be for 1d8+dex+str and also inflict -2 on attacks?

Its not bad, by any means. I can see passing it by, but it isn't necessarily bad.

Please correct me if I have any of this wrong. Like I said, I don't have the book yet.

Edit- 1d8+dex+str+1, for versatile. If the rogue has 18 dex and 14 strength, it gives rogues the same damage as a basic attack from a fighter wielding a greataxe, +1. And still inflicts the -2 to attacks for rattling.

 

[Vael]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more...

I think Martial Power has the opposite problem - it's too much stuff. It's kind of overwhelming, IMHO... Any more and my and my players' heads would spin. I'm hard-pressed to think of a pre-4e book which had this amount of sheer crunch in it, apart from maybe Spell Compendium.

I don't think this should have been in the PHB... I think it's a clear expansion, and great for folks who like more options, but you could run a game for years and years without any of it, and be fine.

-O

Agreed.

While I applaud 4e's Power system ... with only 1 major splat book, it's already causing me headaches as I evaluate different power choices. I'm building a beast Ranger for a Paragon Party, and power choice is taking forever.

I'm thinking I want a quick index of powers like 3.5 spell listings. Level, Name, quick description, has bonuses with X beast or Y class feature.

 

[Deverash]

Agreed.

While I applaud 4e's Power system ... with only 1 major splat book, it's already causing me headaches as I evaluate different power choices. I'm building a beast Ranger for a Paragon Party, and power choice is taking forever.

I'm thinking I want a quick index of powers like 3.5 spell listings. Level, Name, quick description, has bonuses with X beast or Y class feature.

Heh. Writing up a 26th level Warlord for a game, and I'm really wishing the full character builder was going to be up before the game started.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Sounds like the rogue option is a steaming pile. I suppose the powers that give bonuses for the path could be good, but that just reduces the number of new rogue powers for people who realise that the option sucks. Considering the existence of the rapier and superior crossbow, a mace is not a good weapon.

The big differences are:

(a) You need a feat to be proficient in those ... you get proficiency in the mace immediately.

(b) Mace is versatile, while those other weapons are not.

Having looked things over, it does seem like it's not as bad as I originally though. A mace used two handed is about the most damage you can do, and you have a comparable damage output to the brutal scoundrel, depending on how easily you can get combat advantage. The saving grace is probably the powers and feats that allow you to add the rattling keyword to some of your other powers.

Ultimately, sly flourish is an amazing at-will for the rogue ... with this option you have the equivalent of sly flourish replacing strength for charisma, and it gives the opponent a penalty to attack from the keyword, not to mention you can use it with a 1d8 versatile weapon without spending any feats to gain access to that weapon.

 

[Victim]

Versatile doesn't seem like a huge bonus for a rogue. Some sort of defensive off hand for a rogue seems much more valuable choice, since melee strikers seem like they draw a lot of fire.