D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Yaarel]

Taken far enough, yes. Some warriors can literally fight for days on end. This implies some sort of temporary hit point ablative system, being able to shrug off exhaustion, etc. A warrior might be able to take a normal sword and split open an iron door into ribbons, then drive the shards into the wall to make stairs. A rogue might instead be able to pick a lock that jams a trap with a crossbow bolt from thirty feet away while dangling upside down.

A Martial at the highest tier breaking an iron door into splinters then using the splinters to rig stairs, can be fun.

That said, a caster can cast Knock (or more likely use a skill to unlock door), and cast Spider Climb or Levitate at the lowest tier.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Enhh. That's a flavor problem not a capability problem.

No one is blinking at second wind, or indomitable, or maneuvers, superior athlete, or sharpshooter, or brutal critical, or danger sense..etc.etc.etc.

Does yawning count as blinking? I know my eyes close when I do it. And I do it every time someone acts like Superior athlete is in the same gravity well as interesting.

 

[Gammadoodler]

And now we're playing as the Incredible Hulk. Which is fine. In a superhero game. It doesn't feel like fantasy to me. Aragorn didn't need to crush diamonds. Brienne of Tarth doesn't leap mountains. To me those suggestions just seem like another genre.

And Gandalf wasn't safely conjuring earthquakes on the daily. How many resurrections did we see in Middle Earth? How many wizards and bards and sorcerers and clerics were on the Wall in Westeros.

It is a false comparison to hold these up as anything resembling typical of a D&D setting.

 

[Yaarel]

What genre is Beowulf?

I see the genre as saga. I estimate Beowulf himself as about a level 10 Fighter.

 

[Incenjucar]

A Martial at the highest tier breaking an iron door into splinters then using the splinters to rig stairs, can be fun.

That said, a caster can cast Knock (or more likely use a skill to unlock door), and cast Spider Climb or Levitate at the lowest tier.

Why wait until highest tier?

Highest tier is when they grab dragons by the throat and use them like a personal blowtorch.

 

[Clint_L]

What genre is Beowulf?

11th century Anglo-Saxon epic. And Beowulf does nothing a high level fighter couldn't do.

Swim in chainmail while killing sea serpents? Check (though this was mostly bragging). Fight a powerful ogre-type monster with his bare hands? Check. Defeat said creature's mother with a magical sword? Check. Lead an army against invading marauders? Check. Late in life, defeat a dragon, with the aid of a companion, though dying in the process? Check.

Another thing that needs to be discussed while asking for all these incredible abilities for high level fighters (and maybe barbarians, rogues, and monks, though they generally get left out of the conversation, for some reason): what nerfs go with being able to use teleportation circles, leap mountains, crush diamonds, etc.? Because high level fighters are barbarians are currently incredible damage dealers and soakers. One dimensional, sure (varies depending on subclass), but hardly weak.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And Gandalf wasn't safely conjuring earthquakes on the daily. How many resurrections did we see in Middle Earth?

At least the one.

How many wizards and bards and sorcerers and clerics were on the Wall in Westeros.

It is a false comparison to hold these up as anything resembling typical of a D&D setting.

I've long argued GoT shouldn't be allowed anywhere near fantasy. It did things to the genre. Left wounds that are yet to fully heal.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

At least the one.

well, yeah, but that was less a proper resurrection spell and more just the DM pointing at gandalf's player and going "your not-godhood brings you back to life" and gandalf's player going "oh, uh, cool".

edit: or it could've been a clone.

 

[Yaarel]

Highest tier is when they grab dragons by the throat and use them like a personal blowtorch.

Can Martials do that, in 5e, now? Grab a Dragon by the throat and force it to expel its breathweapon?

 

[Gammadoodler]

Yeah but that is precisely the conflict between Martial fans.

Some fans want class features that are game changers like casters have.

But game changers tend to feel too "magical" in a way that other fans dislike.

It is challenging to come up a solution that makes both camps happy.

I suspect both camps want the fun, interesting impactful capabilities. My inclination is to provide those capabilities with minimal justification and let players/dms sort out the flavor that makes them happy.