D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Yaarel]

Warriors tend to gain abilities like being able to break things they shouldn't be able to break, use alternative senses, create shockwaves, endure things that should kill them, etc.

Edit: For example, there's a cartoon where Zangief just deflects a weapon with his sheer muscularity.

Are any of those game changers, the way spells can be?

 

[Gammadoodler]

Yeah, "leap mountains" is closer to the kind of qualitative change that Martials generally lack while advancing.

But this specific example, leap over mountains, might look too "magical".

Enhh. That's a flavor problem not a capability problem.

No one is blinking at second wind, or indomitable, or maneuvers, superior athlete, or sharpshooter, or brutal critical, or danger sense..etc.etc.etc.

Slap a badass mundane explanation on it, and it'll be fine (or better yet, don't put any explanation for it and let players control that narrative)

 

[Micah Sweet]

And those martial fans who demand that have had their edition, multiple times. And every time they get their way, and martials don't get anything more than that, we get discussions of the martial/caster divide.

So, clearly, even if some fans like it this way, a large number don't and are frustrated by this.

Sadly, history teaches us that, however many fans are frustrated by this, it is never enough for WotC to make satisfying changes for them.

 

[Clint_L]

It's not "strong" in a generic sense, it's "strong enough to do x". Maybe that's bend bars, or leap mountains, crush diamonds, whatever.

The point is, they can do something new because they are physically strong enough to do it.

And now we're playing as the Incredible Hulk. Which is fine. In a superhero game. It doesn't feel like fantasy to me. Aragorn didn't need to crush diamonds. Brienne of Tarth doesn't leap mountains. To me those suggestions just seem like another genre.

 

[Yaarel]

Enhh. That's a flavor problem not a capability problem.

No one is blinking at second wind, or indomitable, or maneuvers, superior athlete, or sharpshooter, or brutal critical, or danger sense..etc.etc.etc.

Slap a badass mundane explanation on it, and it'll be fine.

Yeah but that is precisely the conflict between Martial fans.

Some fans want class features that are game changers like casters have.

But game changers tend to feel too "magical" in a way that other fans dislike.

It is challenging to come up a solution that makes both camps happy.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't believe Hanna Barbera ever did, but I distinctly recall cartoons that looked like HB toons that did. Though perhaps Im just misrembering as I can't place whatever it is Im thinking of.

Possibly 90's CN/Boomerang (Which ate HB for the most part and were then eaten by WB) projects like Space Ghost: Coast to Coast, Sealab 2021, Harvey Birdman, or the Brak Show, which used and altered those old shows for adult content, or Venture Brothers, which was a Johnny Quest parody maybe?

 

[Incenjucar]

Are any of those game changers, the way spells can be?

Taken far enough, yes. Some warriors can literally fight for days on end. This implies some sort of temporary hit point ablative system, being able to shrug off exhaustion, etc. A warrior might be able to take a normal sword and split open an iron door into ribbons, then drive the shards into the wall to make stairs. A rogue might instead be able to pick a lock that jams a trap with a crossbow bolt from thirty feet away while dangling upside down.

 

[Incenjucar]

And now we're playing as the Incredible Hulk. Which is fine. In a superhero game. It doesn't feel like fantasy to me. Aragorn didn't need to crush diamonds. Brienne of Tarth doesn't leap mountains. To me those suggestions just seem like another genre.

What genre is Beowulf?

 

[Micah Sweet]

The idea is. The caster gets spells as class features. The high-tier Martial gets magic items as class features.

They both come across other magic items via adventuring, and being members of the same party, would split any magic items found any way.

The Martial gets the special magic item while leveling, not while adventuring.


Pretty much.


Maybe. But it is a reallife archetype that a powerful warrior also has a powerful magic item. Compare King Arthur with Excalibur, Perseus with Harpe and other magic items, and so on. The idea is this archetype is class feature for Martials of high tier.

But acquiring those items is a story event. How would explain those prospective class features in game? Serendipity? How is that not the same as "getting lucky"?

 

[Incenjucar]

I'm fine with them leaving the sidekick fighter as long as we can also have the mythic fighter. DMs can ban one or the other.