D&D (2024) +Caster Single Target Damage+

[FrogReaver]

Might need to specify if 2014 stuff is allowed.

Valor Bard 6/Bladesinger6 has a lot of * starting with does that combo even work and it's not that viable level 1-11.

Valor bards the S tier of bards anyway. Dance is C.

For damage sure, for everything else, I’m liking dance and lore bards better.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sorcerers are nova damage vs dpr. Or play control.

I’d actually suggest they are strongest aoe caster due to careful spell. I don’t see a single class sorcerer doing great nova damage. Maybe with dip for eb.

Also a gentle reminder this is a + thread explicitly meant to keep comments like just do something other than single target damage out.

 

[Zardnaar]

I’d actually suggest they are strongest aoe caster due to careful spell. I don’t see a single class sorcerer doing great nova damage. Maybe with dip for eb.

Also a gentle reminder this is a + thread explicitly meant to keep comments like just do something other than single target damage out.

More the sorcerer is really good imho just not for this threads basic idea.

Sorlocks still good. Well better, Valor bards best bard leading contender for this thread.

You splash for Warlock if playing from low level dex based, maybe splash for fighter or paladin (probably fighter) and take vex and nick. Get that new bard spell at 7 and CME at 10.

Are you talking about theory crafts or builds from level 1/3?

 

[FrogReaver]

More the sorcerer is really good imho just not for this threads basic idea.

Agreed

Sorlocks still good. Well better,

Agreed

Valor bards best bard leading contender for this thread.

Leading contender for this thread but not best bard IMO.

You splash for Warlock if playing from low level dex based, maybe splash for fighter or paladin (probably fighter) and take vex and nick. Get that new bard spell at 7 and CME at 10.

Are you talking about theory crafts or builds from level 1/3?

Both. I’ve not delved into lower level damage yet but I’m interested there as well.

 

[Ashrym]

I hadn't really paid attention to Glyph of Warding but you're sure right! Wow, I can see placing buttons on your clothing for different spells you've stored, triggering with a touch and password. It doesn't just bypass concentration, but it bypasses spell slots since you're using a prior days spell slots. It basically creates one-shot items. A dimension door cast into one is an emergency escape item. You can cast all sorts of situational spells as needed, simply making them in your off hours. It does have a costly component though. But not that costly.

There are still stipulations on what spells can be used (targets a creature or AoE) and how the targeting works for the Spell Glyph, but yeah, we can do a lot with downtime and gold.

It's a Bard / Cleric / Wizard spell for reference. Wizards and Clerics get more out of it based on the differences in spell prep mechanics, but Bards can still find good uses.

Bards arent great either but magical secrets can easily solve the problem.

Font of Moonlight works as a slightly smaller damage bonus prior to Magical Secrets and swapping it out for CME.

That allows for 3 attacks starting at 6th level and the bonus damage starting at 7th level prior to 10th level for CME.

The Valor Bard with a Warlock splash set of builds really comes online at 8th level combining Valor Extra Attack with Agonizing Blast.

For damage sure, for everything else, I’m liking dance and lore bards better.

I can't complain about any 2024 Bard Colleges. I see all of them as useful and worth taking.

Dance is nice for the initiative bonus and avoiding damage.

Glamour is nice as a controller.

Lore has a slow start, IMO, but the skills improve over time, Magical Discoveries is extra spell options no matter how we look at it or use them, and I do really like how Peerless Skill works.

Valor is just a straight forward approach of handing out Bardic Inspiration and adding attacks to spellcasting with a quick armor benefit.

Well better, Valor bards best bard leading contender for this thread.

"Best" is relative to the tasks at hand. Valor Extra Attack is definitely pertinent to this thread though.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well more thoughts then.

The winner is easy. Sorlock. Sorry 2. Warlock 2. Sorcerer XYZ. Switches on early. Pure warlock low level.

With the -5/+10 feats gone most of the nartials are out later on. Dual wielding is the new hotness though. Especially at levels actually play. Scimitar in off hand, short sword in primary nick and vex. Dual wielding paladin is also doable now.

Next contender is the Valor bard. Beaten at low level by martial types and sorlocks. Valor bards best bard imho but it can depend on what's allowed. Difference vs Glamour and Lore is also marginal it's S tier vs A tier.

Valor bards playable from level 1, weak at 5, switches on at level 6 and up. CME gets the glory but there's also fount of moonlight.

Real game contenders.

Sorlock
Low level Warlock
Valor Bard
Dual wielding (Paladin number1?)

 

[Zardnaar]

Theory Crafting and higher levels.

If you're builds not playable from level 1or 3 or is high level it's theory crafting imho. Higher level is generally 13+ imho definitely 15+. My care factor there is 0.

Sorlock still wins with possible exception of CME abuse at close range. Obvious contender there is Valor bard.

Real game. Valor build built around dual wield feat and weapon master feat dexterity based. Downside here is con saves. If 2014 material is allowed green flame blade/booming blade vs truestrike.

Fighter or paladin dip are obvious especially for con saves. Dual wielding feat not needed at level 14. CME at level 10. 1 level dip means you're meh at level 6 and 7 if you're playing from lower level.

Warlock splash. Pact of the blade, charisma to hit and danage and true strike. Extra level of Warlock gets you advantage on con saves. Level 11 or 12 you are something like bard 10, Warlock 2 or 2. You probably splashed Warlock level or levels early. You suck less at level 5,6,7 if MC.

You use Eldritch blast instead of weapons. Weapon master and dual wield feat don't do much for charisma score though. It does get you CME and EB on a charisma chases. Probably skip dual wielding tbh. Trying to do to much. Bardlocks still good from early on and will beat Sorlock level 11/12 if using CME (in a white room).

Lots of trade offs around CME in a real game. Access to feats, weapon styles, weapon masteries and access to CME. And access to 2014 do we include bladesingers and GFB and BB cantrips?

Paladin/EK6 and 7 levels of wizard or Druid could also be considered. Solves a lot of problems playable from level 1 and isn't MAD. Assuming your spellcaster slot are being used for spells that don't care about prime casting stat (shield, haste, CME etc).

If you don't hit level 13 no big deal. You're also smiting or using spells for utility.

 

[FrogReaver]

Font of Moonlight works as a slightly smaller damage bonus prior to Magical Secrets and swapping it out for CME.

Good Call

That allows for 3 attacks starting at 6th level and the bonus damage starting at 7th level prior to 10th level for CME.

Well starting at 7th is technically true, but bards get a single 4th level slot at 7th. Really it's 9th level before they get ample spell slots to do this most of the times they would want.

The Valor Bard with a Warlock splash set of builds really comes online at 8th level combining Valor Extra Attack with Agonizing Blast.

Agreed. Warlock gives alot of benefits here, hex to fallback on before CME, a needed concentration save boost, ability to attack with charisma.

Take spell sniper as your level 4 feat. You'll end up with 3 attacks and hex. At character level 11 you'll get 4. At 16 you'll get 5. At 17 you'll get 6.

Even without the conjure minor elementals i'm fairly impressed.

I can't complain about any 2024 Bard Colleges. I see all of them as useful and worth taking.

Dance is nice for the initiative bonus and avoiding damage.

Glamour is nice as a controller.

Yea.

Lore has a slow start, IMO, but the skills improve over time, Magical Discoveries is extra spell options no matter how we look at it or use them, and I do really like how Peerless Skill works.

Lore is more the out of combat bard at low levels. Cutting Words does so much there.

"Best" is relative to the tasks at hand. Valor Extra Attack is definitely pertinent to this thread though.

As a single class Bard, Before level 10 maybe not. After level 10, i think so and even better with a warlock dip.

 

[FrogReaver]

Level 3 Circle of Stars Druid is looking fairly impressive for that level.

Summon Beast for d8+4+2 with advantage. Archer from stars is a bonus action for d8+3. And then True strike from Magic Initiate for d8+3 = 17.8 DPR

Level 3 Moon Druid is as well. Same as above except transform into a lion and have pack tactics grant your 2x 1d8+3 attacks advantage. = 21.42 DPR


I don't think anything is topping Level 3 Druids in damage.

 

[Zardnaar]

Level 3 Circle of Stars Druid is looking fairly impressive for that level.

Summon Beast for d8+4+2 with advantage. Archer from stars is a bonus action for d8+3. And then True strike from Magic Initiate for d8+3 = 17.8 DPR

Level 3 Moon Druid is as well. Same as above except transform into a lion and have pack tactics grant your 2x 1d8+3 attacks advantage. = 21.42 DPR


I don't think anything is topping Level 3 Druids in damage.

They'll be fairly solid from level 1 but fal off later. Moon Druid being a Moon Druid* though. Star Druids good right through as well but not for the thread premise overall.