I did? When? It isn't rare. I showed that the crappy fighter from the example handles the situation no problem. Just like the literal superheroes that you've posted pictures of.
No, it's because that was the scenario that you laid out.
"No problem" being "If I don't fight my absolute hardest and get very lucky, I'm probably dead"
Yeah, that is totally a "no problem" scenario.
It wasn't commented on because it makes no difference. You can have the orogs win initiative if you want. The fighter still easily wins. Unlike the wizard, he is not vulnerable to being instantly overwhelmed.
Single enemy is not ideal for a wizard, depending on the enemy and the spell selection of the wizard. In general caster single target DPS is weak, and a comparable foe (i.e. just on the edge of a deadly encounter rating) is likely to have some combination of a huge pile of hit points, strong resistances (possibly even legendary), and special attacks. The fighter's offence is more or less the same, though that will change with the new masteries.
The wizard in this situation should be able to take out the orogs faster (i.e. drop some high level fireballs or even a meteor swarm), but if they lose initiative and don't have the right spells to escape, they could also die - the fighter is basically at zero risk. Also...I thought part of the set-up was conserving resources - if the fighter isn't allowed to use action surge or second wind, what are you having the wizard give up?
ROFLOL, seriously? You contradict yourself the second you start. A single enemy is not ideal for a wizard..... depending on the enemy of course, and the spell selection of the wizard and if the enemy has strong resistances.... Really? Wow, so if you design a single enemy that specifically counters the wizard and the wizard specifically doesn't have the right tools to defeat the enemy, the wizard may not have an ideal match up? Color me shocked pikachu face!
You the same thing can happen to a fighter, but only worse right? Put a fighter with a non-magical weapon against any Lycanthrope and they are dead. They stand no chance.
And you are correct, whether the fighter goes first or last makes little difference, they can't affect the combat in that way. The wizard can. After all, it is equally incredibly unlikely that a 20th level wizard is going to get overwhelmed in a single round. As for resources, you seem to still not be hearing me. I can't understand why, because I have said it again and again and now yet again.
The problem isn't "you used resources". The problem is you used ALL your resources. In a second battle, what does the fighter who has used all his action surges and all his second winds have left? A single use of indomitable? Let us say the wizard used a 3rd and a second level spell slot, what resources do they have left? Four 1st level spells, three 2nd level spells, three 3rd level spells, three 4th level spells, two 5th level spells, two 6th level spells, one seventh, eighth and ninth level spell. Do you notice the difference? Do you understand how 20 resources is better than zero resources?
+2 AC is +2 AC. What does rarity have to do with the math, when we are doing a thought experiment? Weird objection, but okay.
Because the shield gives +2 AC as well. So the fighter is getting +4 AC from equipment. But shields are common so we don't usually count them.
No, the fighter, being a champion, starts healing at below half health, which you have not accounted for.
Fine, accounting for the healing factor, the AC 22 Champion actually survives with 11 hp, again assuming no critical hits.
The AC 23 Champion ends with 55, again assuming no critical hits.
MY NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE FOR ANY FIGHTER WITHOUT REGENERATION
moving on.
Or if you want to go with the cavalier, he takes less damage due to deflecting some attacks and kills the orogs a bit quicker but there are a lot more variables.
He can't kill them any quicker, the cavalier has no way to increase their damage unless the enemy attacks someone else. They may take a bit less damage from the deflections, if they can actually deflect the attacks. They only get three of them
I will grant you that the purple dragon knight does die if they don't use their special abilities, since their sub-class features only benefit their allies. Same for arcane archer, because obviously.
Echo knight annihilates the orogs. Eldritch knight, same; barely takes a scratch. Psi warrior doesn't chew through them quite as fast as the echo knight but still has no problem. Rune knight tanks it easily with Hill Rune alone, setting aside finishing a bit quicker as well. Samurai does about the same as the champion.
Seeing the pattern that your initial claim, that the fighter would die, disproven, so you keep shifting goalposts to claim that the fighter won't win easily enough, according to non-defined parameters? That pattern?
Echo knight gets three extra attacks, and that's it. I guess you are maybe thinking of using Shadow Matyr to protect yourself, but I'm not sure the legality of that.
Eldritch Knight can burn through spell slots and do a lot better, sure. I've specifically avoided talking about the fighter that can use spells, for obvious reasons.
Psi warrior uses all of their daily abilities. Again, supposedly and easy effortless fight is DRAINING THEM DRY of abilities.
Hill Rune surely means you can survive this fight. It is also another short rest ability you aren't getting back for the NEXT fight. And since they'd be at 22 AC, that is still a very close fight.
Samurai uses all of their daily abilities, and still ends below 50% of their hp.
No, my fighter is a champion, so that's still the original +2 plate mail you stipulated. I added the weapon and shield. Wasn't your challenge to see how well they could do with magic? Are you walking that back, now, and nickel and diming the magic I chose? Like, if you're going to do that, then don't frame it as an open challenge - just state your parameters up front.
No, my challenge was not to see how well they did with magic. And I'm not nickel and diming you, I'm just pointing out the level of magic you are calling on here. 26 AC is not expected, or even easy. Again, the game was designed to not even account for magical items AT ALL.
Would most wizards yawn through that? I think most wizards would be on a knife edge depending on what spells they took and how the initiative roll went?
"depending on what spells they took" key phrases yet again.
Are we no longer discussing how well fighters can handle trash mobs? There is obviously power disparity between all classes, at all levels.
And some of us see that as a problem. But when we point it out some people decide to say "No, nearly dying in a single fight against low level enemies is a competely trivial encounter and highlights how powerful this class is compared to the one that can casually defeat it without a single point of damage if they go first"
You showed five superheroes. Can I win points by showing a cartoon of Batman facing a bunch of mooks and barely surviving? Because there are tons of examples. Or Conan, if you prefer. What are we arguing about here - D&D? Comic books?
Shouldn't a 20th level fighter be at least as good as Conan or Batman? Also, not sure the Bride from Kill Bill a superhero, and I KNOW Ezio from Assassin's Creed isn't... and didn't I also show Conan?
