D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Micah Sweet]

Posted it before but I vote for something like this:

Mythic Martial
Origin: You have the blood of the First Peoples flowing through you. The First Peoples walked the world in mythic times, and would be seen as like the Gods walked among us if they existed today. They could reportedly could do any manner of fantastic feats. This manifests itself in various abilities that no mere mundane member of your race could ever hope to do. Edit: Sometimes these abilities manifest at birth and sometimes much later in life.

Permissions: theoretically anything God -like beings can do
Class features: some stuff and a large list of level based fantastical abilities martial in nature that you can mix and match to get the kind of hero you want.

Subclasses: Either specific First Peoples champion bloodline around a theme OR something special picked up on their journeys (e.g., sword master of zorn).

There a couple reasons I think we need something this broad (this is all assuming existing classes remain the same):

1) it's hard enough to get 1 mythic martial class in so have to make it flexible enough to cover a lot
2) although I don't like the design of spellcasters, assuming they exist as today, I like to parallel that structure and permissions. The main power (level based abilities) have to be in the main class. Sub classes don't leave enough room.

I like it!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I can't wait for Sixth Edition where the bloodied condition return and certain effects only affect creatures with the bloodied condition or if under X HP.

Might as well build that D&D now, man. Unless 5e tanks in 2024 or soon after, it’s probably going to keep going strong for at least a decade longer.

I think it just goes round and round like when people make the LotR Gandalf argument… “how do we know Gandalf is powerful, because he beat the belrog .” “How do we know the belrog is powerful it took Gandalf to beat him”

Wait what!? LOL no, we know the Balrog is powerful because everyone who knows how powerful things are…are afraid of it. We also know because Gandalf holds it off with dweomers and seals to slow its approach and give the fellowship more time to escape.

We know from the appendixes that the Balgrogs are basically corrupted minor gods (just as the Istari are basically minor gods), and that they took armies and great elven heroes to defeat in ancient days.

 

[Incenjucar]

A full 6th edition can't possibly hit before 2030 even if 1D&D absolutely fails, and is more likely to hit around 2035. It's part of why people are getting extra spicy about all of this. It's pretty much go indie/3P or hope WotC has a change of heart for the next decade.

 

[Yaarel]

Theseus is just the son of a king (although some stories have him as the son of Poseiden, it's a bit blurry). Jason was just a dude. There's a bunch of Greek heroes that aren't fully or partially gods and have no divine magic.

LOL. Psionic magic? You mean that totally made up MODERN concept? As in a concept that didn't even exist prior to about the 20th century?

Also note, who really cares about Norse heroes?

Nope. You are flat out wrong here. Japanese heroes have zero concept of ki. That's a D&Dism.

What divine ancestry did Beowulf have? There's a perfect example of a mythic hero. Zero divine. What divine ancestry did Lancelot have? Oh, right. Zero. No psionics, no ki.

Please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, either provide an acceptable narrative, or just stop. The constantly moving goalposts, plus your own idiosyncratic views on actual mythology means that we cannot possibly come up with a narrative that satsifies you.

So, again, for the umpteenth time, either pee or get off the pot. Pick a narrative you find acceptable and we'll HAPPILY use that.

Hugar (mindforces) is a Norse term appearing in Norse texts. It and its hamr is how magical feats are done.

Japanese warriors refer to ki, it part of daoist influence. Likewise the master swordmaker imbues the sword with ones own "soul" (tamashii), spirit, essence, etcetera, whence its magic.

Jason of the Greek traditions lacks superhuman powers.

 

[Yaarel]

Fantastic. @Yaarel? You okay with this?

Can we PLEASE move on now?

I think so.

Forumers appreciate the need for narrative for many players.

Meanwhile an optimal approach seems, "Fighters demonstrate superhuman abilities, typically from such-and-such magic power source, and sometimes from other magic power sources, including ...".

So the "typically" is the default, but there is room for other concepts as well.

 

[Hussar]

I think so.

Forumers appreciate the need for narrative for many players.

Meanwhile an optimal approach seems, "Fighters demonstrate superhuman abilities, typically from such-and-such magic power source, and sometimes from other magic power sources, including ...".

So the "typically" is the default, but there is room for other concepts as well.

Works for me.

Frankly, personally? Could not possibly care less what the default narrative is. I've never met a player who could actually tell you any of the default flavor. I mean, good grief, right now I have a PC in my game who is a human who is being inhabited by a divine being of some sort. Think sort of like how angels work in Supernatural, if you've seen the show.

Mechanically? Aasimar Favored Soul sorcerer.

Or, our dragonborn character who is from the Feywild.

About the only character we have that's actually sort of on brand is the Autognome Artificer. And, even he is flavored as being the Steel Defender of another gnome who was killed by pirates who became awakened after the death of the gnome.

This notion that we MUST HAVE DEFAULT FLAVOR OR THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE is just such a giant red herring.

In any case, we've got a workable default flavor. So, let's move on shall we?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Both thing I wish the game had. Ways to fast talk the charm condition and menace into frightened.

I did that!

If you make an intimidation, persuasion, or deception check the DC is either 15, the target’s intelligence, or the target’s wisdom. If the target is proficient in insight, increase the DC by +3. However, if you exceed the DC by 5 or more, the target is considered either frightened or charmed by you (as appropriate to the check and situation) for 1 minute, at which point they can roll a save versus your check result if you are still interacting. (Errata: if you hurt a charmed target or someone they care deeply about, you break the charm effect)

 

[Chaosmancer]

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a base narrative at all.

Well, I finally created the perfect base narrative since the first one was bad and terrible and wrong. Magic breathing using parts of the weave. Perfectly magical. Now we can stop trying to find a power source

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, I finally created the perfect base narrative since the first one was bad and terrible and wrong. Magic breathing using parts of the weave. Perfectly magical. Now we can stop trying to find a power source

It's ok. I made one myself at @Hussar 's request.

 

[Tonguez]

I did that!

If you make an intimidation, persuasion, or deception check the DC is either 15, the target’s intelligence, or the target’s wisdom. If the target is proficient in insight, increase the DC by +3. However, if you exceed the DC by 5 or more, the target is considered either frightened or charmed by you (as appropriate to the check and situation) for 1 minute, at which point they can roll a save versus your check result if you are still interacting. (Errata: if you hurt a charmed target or someone they care deeply about, you break the charm effect)

I did this: Legendary Speech - The Heroic Leader can make a Charisma (Persuasion) check contested by the Wisdom (Insight) check of all creatures that can understand what he says during 1 minute of talking. On a success, as long as the hero remains within 60 feet of them the creatures will have a friendly attitude towards him.