D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Micah Sweet]

So supply one. Pony up. Pee or get off the pot.

See it’s not that we don’t care about the narrative. That’s not the issue. The issue is no narrative supplied is acceptable and you and others refuse to provide one that is.

We’re at the point now where we’re willing to accept any narrative just so we can move forward.

So please provide one so we can get out of this endless round and round.

To be fair, this is the first time in this thread anyone has asked me to provide anything.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Consider the superhuman powers of reallife mythic heroes:

Greek heroes are fully or partly gods ≈ Divine magic.

Norse heroes utilize mind (hugar) and self-image (hamr) ≈ Psionic magic.

Japanese heroes utilize ki ≈ Ki magic.

Mythic heroes come with an origin story.

If you are not going to be interacting with the source of your power in any meaningful way in-game, it doesn't matter.

Like I've been playing the game for years now, and the Weave has not been narratively important once. Hell, I'm not even sure the word Weave has even been mentioned in many of these games.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

I assume whatever you guys come up with would potentially have value in my game, and I like the idea of a mythic martial, provided it has a reasonable narrative justification.

Posted it before but I vote for something like this:

Mythic Martial
Origin: You have the blood of the First Peoples flowing through you. The First Peoples walked the world in mythic times, and would be seen as like the Gods walked among us if they existed today. They could reportedly could do any manner of fantastic feats. This manifests itself in various abilities that no mere mundane member of your race could ever hope to do. Edit: Sometimes these abilities manifest at birth and sometimes much later in life.

Permissions: theoretically anything God -like beings can do
Class features: some stuff and a large list of level based fantastical abilities martial in nature that you can mix and match to get the kind of hero you want.

Subclasses: Either specific First Peoples champion bloodline around a theme OR something special picked up on their journeys (e.g., sword master of zorn).

There a couple reasons I think we need something this broad (this is all assuming existing classes remain the same):

1) it's hard enough to get 1 mythic martial class in so have to make it flexible enough to cover a lot
2) although I don't like the design of spellcasters, assuming they exist as today, I like to parallel that structure and permissions. The main power (level based abilities) have to be in the main class. Sub classes don't leave enough room.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Ok.

"Since the beginning of recorded history, there have always been individuals who display unusual, even supernatural abilities above and beyond those normally afforded to their heritage. These beings usually display this power in adolescence, though occasionally it is present from childhood or even at birth. The abilities vary wildly, from flight, to immense strength or speed, enhanced senses, or even stranger abilities like energy projection or telepathy, all without any overt use of magic as it is commonly understood. Those with these abilities tend to be physically fit as a rule, as this is a function of the body more than the mind, and as a result generally enter into warrior training to merge their power with conditioning and skill.

Many possibilities for the origins of this power have been posited by scholars on the subject. Perhaps it is associated with their bloodline. They may be a randomly-ocurring magical "knot" that consolidates the magic of the planes around a single person. This power often manifests during periods of great stress, so it may be the result of a beings' true potential being accidentally unlocked. In any case, those who possess such power grow it through maturity, experience and training, eventually able to reach heights of ability matched only by the strongest of wizards and their ilk."

This is basically a superhero class, based largely on the mutants of Marvel Comics. Base class abilities would offer a menu of combat and noncombat abilities to choose from at different levels, along with general increases in physical ability (extra attack, saves, and the like). Subclasses would define classic archetypes in more detail. It would be fairly complex as WotC classes go, but about right for Level Up or similar crunchier systems.

Something like this would be fine with me.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Posted it before but I vote for something like this:

Mythic Martial
Origin: You have the blood of the First Peoples flowing through you. The First Peoples walked the world in mythic times, and would be seen as like the Gods walked among us if they existed today. They could reportedly could do any manner of fantastic feats. This manifests itself in various abilities that no mere mundane member of your race could ever hope to do. Edit: Sometimes these abilities manifest at birth and sometimes much later in life.

Permissions: theoretically anything God -like beings can do
Class features: some stuff and a large list of level based fantastical abilities martial in nature that you can mix and match to get the kind of hero you want.

Subclasses: Either specific First Peoples champion bloodline around a theme OR something special picked up on their journeys (e.g., sword master of zorn).

There a couple reasons I think we need something this broad (this is all assuming existing classes remain the same):

1) it's hard enough to get 1 mythic martial class in so have to make it flexible enough to cover a lot
2) although I don't like the design of spellcasters, assuming they exist as today, I like to parallel that structure and permissions. The main power (level based abilities) have to be in the main class. Sub classes don't leave enough room.

Looks like you accidentally attributed my quote to Micah Sweet?

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Looks like you accidentally attributed my quote to Micah Sweet?

Sorry will fix!

 

[HammerMan]

That's legitimately pretty funny. I figured if I used the emoji you would assume it was intended derisively.

No it was meant as a joke.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Sorry will fix!

No worries. Thanks. Just figured it'd be a bit confusing since we have near opposite opinions..

 

[Hussar]

Consider the superhuman powers of reallife mythic heroes:

Greek heroes are fully or partly gods ≈ Divine magic.

Theseus is just the son of a king (although some stories have him as the son of Poseiden, it's a bit blurry). Jason was just a dude. There's a bunch of Greek heroes that aren't fully or partially gods and have no divine magic.

Norse heroes utilize mind (hugar) and self-image (hamr) ≈ Psionic magic.

LOL. Psionic magic? You mean that totally made up MODERN concept? As in a concept that didn't even exist prior to about the 20th century?

Also note, who really cares about Norse heroes?

Japanese heroes utilize ki ≈ Ki magic.

Nope. You are flat out wrong here. Japanese heroes have zero concept of ki. That's a D&Dism.

Mythic heroes come with an origin story.

What divine ancestry did Beowulf have? There's a perfect example of a mythic hero. Zero divine. What divine ancestry did Lancelot have? Oh, right. Zero. No psionics, no ki.

Please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, either provide an acceptable narrative, or just stop. The constantly moving goalposts, plus your own idiosyncratic views on actual mythology means that we cannot possibly come up with a narrative that satsifies you.

So, again, for the umpteenth time, either pee or get off the pot. Pick a narrative you find acceptable and we'll HAPPILY use that.

 

[Hussar]

Ok.

"Since the beginning of recorded history, there have always been individuals who display unusual, even supernatural abilities above and beyond those normally afforded to their heritage. These beings usually display this power in adolescence, though occasionally it is present from childhood or even at birth. The abilities vary wildly, from flight, to immense strength or speed, enhanced senses, or even stranger abilities like energy projection or telepathy, all without any overt use of magic as it is commonly understood. Those with these abilities tend to be physically fit as a rule, as this is a function of the body more than the mind, and as a result generally enter into warrior training to merge their power with conditioning and skill.

Many possibilities for the origins of this power have been posited by scholars on the subject. Perhaps it is associated with their bloodline. They may be a randomly-ocurring magical "knot" that consolidates the magic of the planes around a single person. This power often manifests during periods of great stress, so it may be the result of a beings' true potential being accidentally unlocked. In any case, those who possess such power grow it through maturity, experience and training, eventually able to reach heights of ability matched only by the strongest of wizards and their ilk."

This is basically a superhero class, based largely on the mutants of Marvel Comics. Base class abilities would offer a menu of combat and noncombat abilities to choose from at different levels, along with general increases in physical ability (extra attack, saves, and the like). Subclasses would define classic archetypes in more detail. It would be fairly complex as WotC classes go, but about right for Level Up or similar crunchier systems.

Fantastic. @Yaarel? You okay with this?

Can we PLEASE move on now?