Mass Combat: Militray Tactics Old and New!

[Green Knight]

Sorry about that PC. I've edited it out, so if you'd be so kind to edit out the bit that I edited out which you quoted...

 

[willpax]

I've often wondered if it would be possible to re-create the advantage that a phalanx has over less organized troops using the core rules, or if special feats would be necessary.

For example: the classical phalanx had three ranks of troops. You could have the first rank fighting defensively, the second rank attacing all out with long spears (counting on the shield wall to protect them) and the third rank there to prevent routs and fill in the gaps. Even if there were no offensive bonuses, having someone in the L1–L3 range fighting defensively gives them an advantage over most run-of-the-mill attack bonuses.

I haven't played this out to see if it truly offers an advantage within game mechanics. Does anyone else have other ideas for ways to re-create tactics without resorting to specialized feats?

 

[Zhure]

I use a hedgehog formation in 3e. Line of troops wielding poleweapons (guisarme, longspear, ranseur), alternating down the front rank. A second rank uses the same layout.

When attacked with a non-reach weapon, at least two and usually three or more troops will be able to hit. The guisarme wielder attempts a trip. If successful, the target is prone and taking a -4 to hit, and is +4 to hit.

The longspear wielder is braced for a charge against mounted targets, otherwise holds a readied action to attack. The ranseur is ready to disarm anyone with a reach weapon.

Behind this rank, the second rank is ready to step up to replace casualties or for guisarme wielders who have to drop their weapon.

You can also put a rank of tower shield, shortsword wielders right in front of the hedgehog in case anyone closes.

Inside this hedgehog is where you put the archers and mages. Adopting a roman tactic and using slingers to send caltrops all over the battlefield will minimize the effect of cavalry at breaing the hedgehog.

Hope that helps,
Greg

 

[Green Knight]

But Shaka really had no care for those people nor his enemy. His highly trained, highly mobile, highly equipped troops decimated the battle field with their ferocity and speed.

So if the point of conquest is to kill ALL your enemy this would be one way to do it. I can see the zulu warriors (probably barbarians) enraged and hasted by the shamans charging in with short spears. [/B]

Hmm. Maybe replace the Zulus with orcs in a D&D game? Note: Like the above hobgoblin, I'm using standard 25 point buy stats for the orc (8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15).

ORC
Medium-Size Humanoid
Hit Dice: 1d12+2 (8 hp)
Initiative: +1 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 16 (+1 Dex, +4 Chain Shirt, +1 Buckler)
Attacks: Greataxe +5 melee; or javelin +2 ranged
Damage: Greataxe 1d12+6; or javelin 1d6+4
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Qualities: Darkvision, Rage 1/day
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +0
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 6
Skills: Wilderness Lore +2, Listen +4, Jump +6, Intuit Direction +4, Spot +2
Feats: Extended Rage
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil.
Advancement: By character class.

Gave them Extended Rage, as I doubt Shaka Orc would want his troops to end up tired in the critical part of the battle. How does that look as the standard soldier in a Shaka Zulu type army? Or at least the standard soldier which forms the Bulls Horn. Shaka Orc might want a different type of soldier to form the mainstay of the Bulls Head.

 

[NemesisPress]

From a modern perspective, one of the most basic small-unit infantry tactics is a flanking attack, wherein machinegun(s) lay down suppressing fire from high ground to pin the enemy, while an assault force moves through at right angles to the supporting fire. As the assault force hits the enemy line, the support fire shifts back to cut off the line of retreat.

I recently came across a comment by a small unit commander (platoon leader or something in WWII I think) who said they had been extensively drilled in that in training - only to find out that in practice, the enemy was always smart enough to protect their flanks and would cut down any attempted outflanking force. The one thing he said it did do was give green troops the feeling that they could do something - rather than just sit there and take it or charge straight ahead.

 

[Bhadrak]

When coming up with stats for rank and file troopers, it's probably best just to go with the racial averages. 25 (or 28 or 30) point buy is supposed to be for hero type characters, not your run of the mill grunts.

You're more than welcome to do what you want, I'm just pointing out that it might be a bit absurd to imagine an entire army of 17 dex hobgoblins.

Just for pure entertainment purposes, I used Jamis Buck's city generator (which is based off the DMG guidelines) to see what the breakdown of classes would be in a 50,000 population metropolis.

2,500 warriors (99.9% of which are 1st level)
Only 60 fighter class characters, 40 of which were 1st level.

So, judging by those numbers, I supposed it would be quite difficult to field many units of troops that actually have fighter levels or were above 1st level.

In times of war, I reckon that most units might be comprised of hastily trained commoners.

 

[Piratecat]

I found a rule that says that undead with full cover are immune to turning. Thus, I had a phalanx of undead with interlocked tower shields opposing the PCs. On command, the front line lowered their shields; the second and third ranks threw their spears (as readied actions); and the front line put their tower shields back up. It worked extremely effectively!

I was reading the book Sharpe's Rifles by Bernard Cornwall (I believe), and excellent series about British riflemen during the Peninsular War against Napoleon. Lots of cool examples of different maneuvers and formations in there. Some of them I stole for D&D.

 

[Bhadrak]

Yes, I believe that according to the rules, undead have to be able to see the turning cleric in order to be turned, so full cover would naturally grant them immunity to turning.

Hmm, I'm sure there's a joke to be made there about a bunch of blind undead kobolds...


Oh yeah, Cornwell's Sharpe series is great fun.

 

[mmadsen]

Just for pure entertainment purposes, I used Jamis Buck's city generator (which is based off the DMG guidelines) to see what the breakdown of classes would be in a 50,000 population metropolis.

2,500 warriors (99.9% of which are 1st level)
Only 60 fighter class characters, 40 of which were 1st level.

So, judging by those numbers, I supposed it would be quite difficult to field many units of troops that actually have fighter levels or were above 1st level.

I'd assume the number of high-level spellcasters would be even lower. Magic might very well have little effect on D&D mass combat, because the thousands of warriors only have to deal with a few 1st-level spellcasters.

 

[mmadsen]

I take it, then, that you haven't bought the Lords of Darkness supplement for Forgotten Realms? Because in it it's got the Phalanx Fighting feat.

I certainly haven't bought Lords of Darkness, and I can't quite see why Phalanx Fighting would appear there -- especially when there's a Fighter splatbook where it would fit perfectly. Anyway, what does the Phalanx Fighting feat do? And since most soldiers are 1st-level Warriors who probably don't have the Phalanx Fighting feat, is there much point in their using a Phalanx?