D&D 5E Massive overhaul, looking for some help and tips

[GMMichael]

... has this been done already, or maybe a lite version that is free form within the classes, which I could work off of?

The multiclassing rules are a lite version. But the beauty of house rules is that you get to write them (as long as it's your house)!

 

[jmucchiello]

I did this in 3.0, Character Customization on drivethrurpg, but to simplify things, i used bigger chunks. Rather than straight up point buy, i made a class construction kit. Many 3.x players would generate their char progression from 1-20 anyway. So my purchases were tracks. Buy the ranger favored enemy track or barbarian rage.

Otherwise balancing spell progressions against feats is going to be hard.

One last piece of advice, start with big numbers: starting points are 1000, feats cost 100. You can always scale it down, once, when you are done. But scaling it up several times will be annoying.

Good luck.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using EN World mobile app

 

[dave2008]

2. Stats: everyone starts with 10 across the board. You can lower stats to gain points, or spend points to raise stats. I think I would start at a d6 hit die, unless I wanted it grittier.

There is already a point buy system for stats, no need to reinvent the wheel there.

 

[dave2008]

P.S. Good luck, this is something I have thought about doing, but haven't been up for all the work. FYI, when I looked into it about a year ago no one had made a 5e classless system your looking for (there is a 4e version). Also, somewhere on this forum someone as broken the feats down into half feats which should be easier to balance with your +1 ASI concept. Please let us know how it turns out.

 

[akr71]

Basically, I am going to have to establish a Growth Point system, and decide what each ability costs. The end result will hopefully work. Before I get started though, has this been done already, or maybe a lite version that is free form within the classes, which I could work off of?

I would say a good starting point (and by good I mean 'quick') would be to assign abilities as they appear in the PHB a point value equal to the level at which they are earned. Then decide how many points a character starts with and how many they earn/level. Certainly some abilities should have pre-requisites, whether they are minimum ability scores or previous learned abilities.

Then create a few abilities of your own. I see a system like this allowing for specialization to really shine - someone who invests time and energy into studying one specific weapon, fighting style, school of magic or specific spell should be rewarded for it regardless if it skews the math.

Can the points be 'banked' or do they need to be all spent upon earning them?

It is a very interesting concept and I would like to read how you progress with it.

 

[Lanliss]

There is already a point buy system for stats, no need to reinvent the wheel there.

This is for those who don't use all of their point buy to realize their concept. One of my players has 5 points left over after one use of point buy, and I am sure he would have liked something to use that on, as a kind of reward for choosing stats for a character rather than the most mechanically capable output.

I would say a good starting point (and by good I mean 'quick') would be to assign abilities as they appear in the PHB a point value equal to the level at which they are earned. Then decide how many points a character starts with and how many they earn/level. Certainly some abilities should have pre-requisites, whether they are minimum ability scores or previous learned abilities.

Then create a few abilities of your own. I see a system like this allowing for specialization to really shine - someone who invests time and energy into studying one specific weapon, fighting style, school of magic or specific spell should be rewarded for it regardless if it skews the math.

Can the points be 'banked' or do they need to be all spent upon earning them?

It is a very interesting concept and I would like to read how you progress with it.

I have not decided on banking. I am leaning more towards "no" because of how I am handling the abilities. If they don't want any of the current abilities they can afford, I can always just work with them to make what they do want.

I did already think of how easy it would be to add in my own abilities, instead of needing to figure out that pesky last ability for a full subclass, when my mind only covered a few of the low level concepts for it.

 

[jmucchiello]

A puzzle for the OP, given that a Human's +1 to 6 abilities supposed to be equal to +1 to 2 abilities plus 1 skill proficiency plus 1 feat we can determine, that 1 skill proficiency might be equal to +1 to 1 ability and 1 feat is equal to +1 to 3 abilities (especially since many feats include +1 to 1 ability and +1 or more skill proficiencies). This equivalence makes a bit of sense as a basis for your point system, good so far?

The half-elf get +2 to 1 ability, +1 to 2 abilities, 2 skills proficiencies, darkvision, and other smaller benefits. So is this a balanced feat?
Vision of the Night: You gain 1 skill proficiency of your choice, +2 to 1 ability and darkvision.

That's obviously too much for a feat but somehow 1 skill, +2 to 1 ability and darkvision are equal to 4 +1 ability increases.

The point of this exercise is that D&D, esp 5e, is not built to be easily balanced with numbers. Even if you are leaving the races untouched, their lack of balance still informs the rest of the system in terms of what is a feat equivalent to.

 

[Lanliss]

A puzzle for the OP, given that a Human's +1 to 6 abilities supposed to be equal to +1 to 2 abilities plus 1 skill proficiency plus 1 feat we can determine, that 1 skill proficiency might be equal to +1 to 1 ability and 1 feat is equal to +1 to 3 abilities (especially since many feats include +1 to 1 ability and +1 or more skill proficiencies). This equivalence makes a bit of sense as a basis for your point system, good so far?

The half-elf get +2 to 1 ability, +1 to 2 abilities, 2 skills proficiencies, darkvision, and other smaller benefits. So is this a balanced feat?
Vision of the Night: You gain 1 skill proficiency of your choice, +2 to 1 ability and darkvision.

That's obviously too much for a feat but somehow 1 skill, +2 to 1 ability and darkvision are equal to 4 +1 ability increases.

The point of this exercise is that D&D, esp 5e, is not built to be easily balanced with numbers. Even if you are leaving the races untouched, their lack of balance still informs the rest of the system in terms of what is a feat equivalent to.

Yeah, I have not thought about poking feats just yet. With this system I don't think they would even be really necessary, since me and the player can work to build an ability they feel works for their character, then just drop that into their current choice pool.

Much of the "balance" would be me eye balling abilities, then letting the players know that it might change of it turns out too powerful or weak.

I have thought about just letting my players pick whatever they feel like from their current level, or some reasonable trade up for past level abilities, as a kind of life version. If someone in this thread already said basically that, I apologize, my mind is all over the place right now.

 

[jmucchiello]

I thought you might be attempting something more mathematical. If the goal is to get something that relies on DM eyeballs, then you should be fine.

 

[mflayermonk]

Could you do a special ability auction? For example, players would bid for things like Rage or Action Surge. Everything is fair game and let a player/table economy assign the growth points. Once a special ability is gone, thats it-no other player can have action surge etc.