Mastercraft/Masterwork levels for low magic game

[Kheti sa-Menik]

I am running a low magic D&D 3.5 game. Magic has been toned down, both spells and magic items, a lot.
Though I don't want people to become dependant on their magic gear as tends to happen in vanilla D&D, I do want different levels of quality when it comes to arms and armor but don't want it ridiculous either. The availability of magical gear is severly limited.

Maybe a chain shirt that acts like a chain shirt +2 only is nonmagical and its bonus is due to high craftsmanship instead of magic.
Maybe like a scaleable masterwork quality?

I know there was some discussion about something like this around here at some point....

Does anyone have any idea on cost vs bonus?

I was thinking of something for weapons like, using the masterwork quality as a starting point:
Masterwork (Lvl 1) +1 AB +300gp
Masterwork (Lvl 2) +1 AB +1 Damage bonus +600gp?
Masterwork (Lvl 3) +2 AB +1 Damage bonus +900gp?
Masterwork (Lvl 4) +2 AB +2 Damage bonus +1200gp?
Masterwork (Lvl 5) +3 AB +2 Damage bonus +1500gp?


Or armor, you can play with Max Dex bonus, AC penalty, Arcane Spell Failure, and AC bonus.

Does anyone have some ideas?

Oh, and I'm not using the suggested treasure guidelines in the DMG, they have far less money than normal 4th level characters do.

 

[Aaron L]

I've always wondered: if you kept the same mechanics for magical weapons (IE +1-5 to hit and damage) but changed the wording from "magic" to "masterpiece," then would the people who complain about too many magic items be a bit happier?

Now, obviously things like flaming and shocking will still be magical effects, but apart from that you can simply just say the bonuses to hit and damage are from superior materials and craftsmanship, like you suggest. You don't need to change the prices at all.

 

[GlassJaw]

I've always wondered: if you kept the same mechanics for magical weapons (IE +1-5 to hit and damage) but changed the wording from "magic" to "masterpiece," then would the people who complain about too many magic items be a bit happier?

I've been looking for expanded rules on crafting, specially for a low-magic world, and this is exactly what I don't want. And it's exactly what Black Company delivers. What's the point of being low-magic at all if the item mods and costs are exactly the same? The difference is in name only and if anything, makes the Craft skill too powerful but now you can create very powerful items with needing the Craft feats.

 

[Kheti sa-Menik]

What I want to get rid of is this dependance on the item.
It seems in the current game, if a PC gets robbed/taken/swindled/captured and his +3 holy flaming bursting bastard sword of greatness is removed from him, and he is relegated to a normal or masterwork greatsword, he will whine because he either spent so much money or something else. He will complain that with the normal bastard sword, his character isn't anywhere near as powerful and such.

I want that percieved reliance to go away. I want a PC who loses their masterwork (level 2) bastard sword to say, when robbed of this and offered a normal bastard sword, to say "that's okay, my feats and skills and attributes are what make me powerful and strong, not my sword of uberness."

But I don't mind giving small bumps of power when it comes to items, but I would rather they be because of the craft of the item, not enchanted.
So I thought a mastercraft system would be neat. It would be capped so not to get ridiculous....i'm not sure it would deliver bonuses up to +5 even.

 

[Aaron L]

I've been looking for expanded rules on crafting, specially for a low-magic world, and this is exactly what I don't want. And it's exactly what Black Company delivers. What's the point of being low-magic at all if the item mods and costs are exactly the same? The difference is in name only and if anything, makes the Craft skill too powerful but now you can create very powerful items with needing the Craft feats.

Keep the Craft feat and rename it "Craft Masterpiece Arms and Armor."

And I thought the point of being low-magic was... well, having fewer magic items.

 

[Azgulor]

I wouldn't do a straight replacement of +X magical bonus with +X masterwork bonus. I might have varying levels such as:
+1 attack bonus
+1 damage bonus
x2 hit points
x2 hardness

The first two address exceptional weapon quality, the latter two address exceptional weapon construction. Arrange them/combine them in whatever order you prefer.

Azgulor

 

[shilsen]

If you want to make it dependent on the PC, then why not make the bonuses based on the wielder?

For example, a PC of 4th-7th lvl using a weapon grants it a +1 enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with any existing bonus. A PC of 8th-11th lvl grants it a +2. Similarly, 12th-15th lvl wielders = +3, 16th-19th lvl wielders = +4 and a 20th lvl wielder = +5.

And yes, that works out precisely to the bonuses of a GMW spell. You could do the same with a PC wearing armor. Of gaining a resistance bonus to saves. And so on.

You effectively get all the benefits of the equipment system, don't have to change monsters and other things to make challenges fit a low-magic party, still have warriors able to be as effective with non-magical equipment as spellcasters, and do it all with the focus on the character, not the equipment.

 

[Nightfall]

Advanced Game Master's Guide offers you a new way to utlize "mastercraft" work. There's renowned items and legendary items. Also the core class, the master, from Dragonlance (in War of the Lance) grants a kind of signature item that allows for it to be near magical without actually being magical. Same is true for the legendary items in Advanced Game Master's Guide.

I'd heartily recommend that plus the soverign materials for weapons of greater quality and thus near magical ability (since some can by pass near epic DRs.)

 

[molonel]

I've never quite understood the logic of, "I want to run a low magic game, so I'm going to change +1 and +2 and +3 magic items into masterwork, super masterwork and super duper masterwork!"

But that's just me.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

In terms of mastercrafted gear, I'd think about how the bonuses interact with any magical goods the PCs might find or make?

What happens to a mastercrafted +3/+3 weapon, enchanted as a magical +1 weapon. If it's a weapon that deals +3 and counts as magical, then I'd be tempted to keep the prices the same as that for magical weapons - just make those much harder to obtain?


I'm with Shilsen! Make the bonuses innate and not based on a gizmo is a really good way to go IMO.