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Matrix 4 (Spoilers)

Stalker0

Legend
Just watched it on HBO Max.

And....what a dumpster fire of a movie :( I'm not even sure I would call it a movie, there were scenes, and characters, and dialogue....but I don't know if you could say that fit together into an actual movie.

I could probably write paragraphs about all the stuff I didn't like in this one, but I'll narrow it down to two points:
  • Nothing was Original or Fresh. The movie was so META that it literally told us what made the Matrix, "the Matrix", and that was being original and fresh. Nothing in this movie felt that way, it was all rehashed, all stuff I felt like I had seen before.

  • It felt like Season 8 GOT to me. Things "happened", but for no good reason. Half of the characters I had no idea why they were doing or acting the way that they did. Most of the plot motivations made 0 sense to me. People just acted a certain way because we needed scenes and plot. These weren't "characters", they were plot generators.

Here's hoping John Wick 4 is better. The Matrix 3 ended the trilogy, but this movie may have just killed it.
 

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GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Watch it again. I will, but not in the sense that I'm still on the fence. I'm still in low-level shock from the first viewing, but I'll try to coalesce some ideas:

Original and Fresh: the movie is a reboot of Matrix 1, but with a two new angles: dichotomies tend to be false, and Neo isn't the One. Or better yet, Neo knew he wasn't the One for a reason.

The action went by quickly, the "happenings," but the movie did slow down to focus on the important bits. If you spend more time appreciating these and let the action scenes fly by, it might make more sense.

I have my complaints too:
  • the Easter eggs and references to earlier movies occur fast and furious, so it's hard to grasp them.
  • One or two montages that felt like typical Hollywood cheese.
  • Gratuitous fight scenes.
  • Agent Smith got dropped like a bad habit. I think?
  • Trinity's realization didn't gel for me, on first viewing anyway.

Overall, the meta nature, deja-vu realization, and resurrection of earlier themes made it more than worthwhile. It ain't no Marvel superhero film.
 

It was under baked, like they mixed together a few fanfics instead of planning a real story. Aside from Morpheus's fashion, and blue hair lady's blue hair, and maybe the bit about machines and people starting to work in harmony, nothing was especially compelling.
 


Stalker0

Legend
A key point I forgot to mention in my original review above....the movie is BORING.

Frankly, an exciting movie that makes no sense can sometimes be forgiven, there are movies where the ride is so fun I don't care that it makes no sense how I got there.

This is not that movie. When a movie is boring, all I can do is sit there and nitpick it to pieces, and that's exactly what happened with this movie.

The fight scenes aren't that interesting, the effects aren't that neat, the characters aren't that cool, no grand reveal was so cool that it blew my mind. I literally checked the runtime multiple times during the movie....because I wanted to turn it off. While Matrix 3 is not great by any means, at least it had some exciting stuff happening on occasion.

At the end of the time, this is the greatest sin of all. For if entertainment isn't entertaining....then it serves no purpose.
 

Stalker0

Legend
It ain't no Marvel superhero film.
Agreed, those films have plots and characters :p

I'm going to dive in to the plot a bit now, as I talked about how nothing was original or neat. Retreading the same old plot from a slightly new angle is not original, its just a retread in disquise. Here are a few ways they could have taken the plot in a completely different direction.

  • Neo realizes that it wasn't the machines that brought him back, but the humans....who were so desperate for a central beacon to guide them that they had to bring back "the one" to function.
  • Neo finds out that his status as the "one" has created a cult within human society, and that he now has to free minds from his own orthodoxy.
  • Neo is resurrected not physically, but as a program. He now gets to explore what its like to be a program, maybe even seeing the machine city "through the program's eyes"
  • Neo actually does have mental problems, and the matrix really is in his own head (now this plotline would have gotten reamed for several other reasons, but I at least could respect the balls to go in such a bold direction).
 
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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I loved the meta cheese and I think Lana Wachoski told us exactly what went into the design choice with the whole “What is the Matrix” sequence and the line ”WB wanted a new one and if we wont do it, they’ll do it anyway”
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
. . .I'm going to dive in to the plot a bit now, as I talked about how nothing was original or neat. Retreading the same old plot from a slightly new angle is not original, its just a retread in disquise. . .
I just did a rewatch with subtitles. That helped a lot. Thinking "bugs" was modern (80s?) lingo for programs/agents was obviously my mistake. But anyway...

I wouldn't call it a retread in disguise. I'd call it a metaphor, plot element, and nostalgia device (the last of which was brought up by Morpheus). The movie starts off by retreading Matrix 1, shot by shot, but Bugs says there's something wrong. Something's different. Then the similarities take a different turn, moving away from the storyboard and further back, to the plot. As in, someone has to be rescued from the Matrix. Then that person has to go back in to save someone from the Matrix. . . etc. Another evolution of the movie is that it brings up several themes from M1, but offers more information or a different take on them as they come up. For example, Agent Smith from M1 points out that humans define themselves through suffering, which is why the perfect-world Matrices didn't work out. The Analyst, however, takes a different (more recent) approach: humans thrive on suffering, and become more productive during conflict. Next layer: people don't care about facts; they care about feelings. These aren't grand reveals that play out in the movie, but you could look at the real world and ask if the Matrix is explaining what happens here.

But I can see how some people would find that boring.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Yeah, everything I've read about this film makes me not want to see it. What a shame, I was really looking forward to it.

Interesting how the Wachowskis essentially made one great movie, and everything else after was mediocre to bad (imo). I guess they only had one good film in them.
 


GMMichael

Guide of Modos
They brought back the golden code. Does that have official meaning yet?

Is there significance to the similarity between Deus Machina (the hive) and the sentient programs brought into the real world via nanobots?
 

Mallus

Legend
But I can see how some people would find that boring.
It’s simultaneously a work of metafiction critiquing, among other thing, its own creation and a super-earnest, monumentally sentimental love story. This one’s going to be divisive.

Me? I loved it. Definitely will watch it again before it leaves HBO. In some ways, it’s better than the original. Moss and Reaves have never been better, and the new cast is great, esp Trinity 2.0 (err Bugs), Morpheus 2.0 and Smith 2.0.
 

Argyle King

Legend
I didn't like the new version of Agent Smith.

The overall movie was a mixed bag for me. I liked a lot of the messaging and exploration of themes, but the execution left a lot to be desired.

I feel as though the movie contained a lot of elements which could have been a great movie, but it ends up falling flat due to lazy methods of storytelling.

I had thought the scene with Neo in front of the mirror with the pills might borrow a bit more from Equilibrium and lead to a movie about waking up from the artificial constructs of society and the preconceived expectations of others about what you should be, but it never quite makes it there.
 


Mallus

Legend
Regardless of what you thought of the film overall, you gotta admit reimagining The Architect into Mark Zuckerberg the evil psychiatrist, as played by Neil Patrick Harris was genius.

Also, while he's no Hugo Weaving inventing a new form of American accent, I thought King George III from Hamilton did a fine job as Smith 2.0.
 


payn

Legend
I liked the first half better than the second. It sort of falls apart for me when the meta jokes stop and the move becomes all the things they joke about. Action scenes seemed really weak and uninteresting. I think Covid shooting protocols probably had a lot to do with it. The "bot swarm" just didn't feel menacing like past agents did. I missed logging into the Matrix being a risky proposition, it just felt tame in this film. Which I get isnt what they were going for. I didn't mind most of the writing, but if they were turning the one into the two, I wish we got more from Trinity's perspective in the movie.

My ranks;
The Matrix
Matrix Reloaded
Matrix Resurrections
....
Carrot Top's Chairmen of the Board.
Matrix Revolutions
 

Mercurius

Legend
I just finished it. Yeah, something was lacking. It wasn't as bad as I was expecting based upon the backlash, but it wasn't very good. In a way, it was both less bad than 2 and 3 and also less good...just, bland. And 1 remains the (only) classic, imo.

Also, what kind of mother is Trinity? Your daughter's arm is broken and you...don't believe it? That just wasn't believable at all, or that she'd shrug off a full life of family and kids because Keanu Reeves gave her his Woah Eyes.

Also, I was under the mistaken impression that Trinity was re-made into the One. My understanding is that they are the Two, or Two-as-One.

Anyhow, I was just left with a sense of...what now? What really happened? Nothing really happened except Neo woke up and then Trinity woke up. Are they setting it up for sequels? It feels like it needs more of a story. Otherwise it just comes across as Matrix: The Reunion.
 

Stalker0

Legend
In a way, it was both less bad than 2 and 3 and also less good...just, bland.
I respect that Matrix 3 is not a great movie.... but you really think this movie is better than 2? Matrix 2 is honestly a pretty good sequel, it has its lumps but its actually quite solid in many ways.

I feel that too often that Matrix 2 gets wrapped in with 3. Three is a bad movie; two is not.
 

pukunui

Legend
I respect that Matrix 3 is not a great movie.... but you really think this movie is better than 2? Matrix 2 is honestly a pretty good sequel, it has its lumps but its actually quite solid in many ways.

I feel that too often that Matrix 2 gets wrapped in with 3. Three is a bad movie; two is not.
I hated Matrix 2 so much I never bothered to see #3. I'd put it on a par with The Phantom Menace as being the closest I've ever come to walking out of a theater mid-movie.
 

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