Matrix 4 (Spoilers)

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
. . .The "bot swarm" just didn't feel menacing like past agents did. I missed logging into the Matrix being a risky proposition, it just felt tame in this film. Which I get isnt what they were going for. I didn't mind most of the writing, but if they were turning the one into the two, I wish we got more from Trinity's perspective in the movie.
I read that solving problems with guns is something they wanted to step away from, so Neo and Trinity spend the swarm scene fleeing instead of shooting. The dive-bombing scene was a little hair-raising, and reminds me of the line, "most people will risk their lives to protect (the Matrix)" (fuzzy memory reference).

Trinity-perspective would have been nice, yes. But...I don't think the movie needed a hiring-the-babysitter scene.

Kudos to Carrot Top for making the list!

Also, what kind of mother is Trinity? Your daughter's arm is broken and you...don't believe it? That just wasn't believable at all, or that she'd shrug off a full life of family and kids because Keanu Reeves gave her his Woah Eyes.
Are you thinking of Joey Lawrence?

I know someone who would (has?) shrug off her life of family and kids for the One. Two someones, actually. It's not uncommon, and they didn't even have a nagging feeling that they were once free from the Matrix, like Tiff.

Also, I was under the mistaken impression that Trinity was re-made into the One. My understanding is that they are the Two, or Two-as-One.
Neo + Trinity = the Four, I think 🤓 Maybe they have two kids in Matrix 5? Note that Neo wasn't flying or jumping into sentients this time around. I'm going with Trinity as the new anomaly, not Neo.

Anyhow, I was just left with a sense of...what now?
That part might have been intentional.

By the way, "we're going to remake the Matrix." Does that imply that all the humans in pods can just stay there, and enjoy the Matrix more? What happened to freeing them?
 

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payn

Legend
I read that solving problems with guns is something they wanted to step away from, so Neo and Trinity spend the swarm scene fleeing instead of shooting. The dive-bombing scene was a little hair-raising, and reminds me of the line, "most people will risk their lives to protect (the Matrix)" (fuzzy memory reference).
I never saw guns as problem solvers in the past. If anything, they just caused a diversion to allow you to get away. Im down with them moving away at any rate, but its strange since there is still a lot of gun play in this movie.

I wish I could say the dive bombing was hair raising, but it wasn't. I don't know it just fell flat, like all the action in this film. Ultimately, it just felt unnecessary and shot in an amateur 90s television way.
Trinity-perspective would have been nice, yes. But...I don't think the movie needed a hiring-the-babysitter scene.
Right, it was too busy delivering pointless gunplay scenes instead.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I respect that Matrix 3 is not a great movie.... but you really think this movie is better than 2? Matrix 2 is honestly a pretty good sequel, it has its lumps but its actually quite solid in many ways.

I feel that too often that Matrix 2 gets wrapped in with 3. Three is a bad movie; two is not.

I actually didn't rank them comparatively, and was just saying that 4 was both not as bad and not as good. Meaning, lower highs and higher lows.

I should probably re-watch 2 and 3. I saw them in the theater when they came out, and then again on video a couple years later, but not for a decade plus.
Are you thinking of Joey Lawrence?
Hah, I forgot about him.
I know someone who would (has?) shrug off her life of family and kids for the One. Two someones, actually. It's not uncommon, and they didn't even have a nagging feeling that they were once free from the Matrix, like Tiff.
That sounds like a story. Care to elaborate?

I mean, I know that lots of folks leave their kids, and some even for spiritual reasons. But that doesn't make it an honorable or loving thing.
Neo + Trinity = the Four, I think 🤓 Maybe they have two kids in Matrix 5? Note that Neo wasn't flying or jumping into sentients this time around. I'm going with Trinity as the new anomaly, not Neo.


That part might have been intentional.

By the way, "we're going to remake the Matrix." Does that imply that all the humans in pods can just stay there, and enjoy the Matrix more? What happened to freeing them?
One thing that I was hoping they'd play with is that Io was another level of the Matrix, that the "friendship" with the machines was actually a con and maybe Niobe knows but sold out to prevent endless war.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
That sounds like a story. Care to elaborate?
Two women who waited until the kids hit about 18 to end the marriage. Not really story worthy... but Trinity did point out that she felt, at times, that her assigned role from society was to be a house mom. Given who she actually is, there was probably a seed of resentment growing for a long time.
One thing that I was hoping they'd play with is that Io was another level of the Matrix, that the "friendship" with the machines was actually a con and maybe Niobe knows but sold out to prevent endless war.
Niobe did sell out, as Bugs points out. Niobe would rather grow strawberries than save copper tops, though she sees it differently. And Io did become a prison for Neo, briefly, like the Matrix. It seems your wish was granted!
 

GreyLord

Legend
I'll be the odd one out and say I LOVED Matrix 2 and 3.

Matrix 1 had a stronger ending overall and would have a better ending overall if they never made the sequels...so, overall #1 rocks and makes more sense without the sequels anyways.

But, I still love the sequels as well. They detract the ending of #1, but if you can overlook that...I think they rock pretty hard. I even love #3.

Of course, I seem to love almost everything that the Wachowski's do (the only one that I haven't outright loved thus far has been Cloud Atlas, but I found it at least intellectually stimulating to a point).

The best movie outside the Matrix that they made though is one not many really think of today, but I thought they did an outstanding job of remaking but at the same time reinventing it...Speed Racer. Didn't really care for the TV series...but I absolutely adore the movie they made.
 

Vael

Hero
I quite liked it. It was never going to surpass the original, but as a meta commentary and as an homage to the original with some new stuff, I enjoyed it.

I'll admit, as a big Sens8 fan, seeing half the cast pop up was quite rewarding and a quick way for me to root for their survival in the final sequences. Which ... weren't as good, I found the action too chaotic, the OG trilogy was a lot more poetic and precise.

The major flaw, for me, was that if this was all about Trinity's choice ... we needed to see her life as Tiffany in the Matrix. Because it was all about Neo, she was just a prize to be won and that isn't great.

I did like Io and seeing humans and machines on the same side, that part was cool. I would love more time with Bugs' crew.
 


bennet

Explorer
I don't read a single thing online before going to the movies, I saw the Matrix 4 trailer and I'm like "YES I AM IN". Booked my IMAX and sat down.

Started off fine, bit of a rehash, but amusing and familiar. I thought the girl with the purple hair fit and was cool, the only thing fresh in the movie.

30 mins into it and my entire perspective changed as the movie went downhill fast.

1) Too many weird split flash backs to the first movie "Mr Anderson" because they couldn't get the actual Mr Anderson...
2) 90 year old grandmother is running the free world? Ok insert Biden jokes but still.
3) When Neo was rescued grandmas first reaction is "I take your ship and lockup Neo". Incredibly unrealistic.
4) Neo is locked up, 5 mins later, "nope we break you out, yay", ugh plot easy.
5) Redoing the scene where they are learning martial arts neo vs fake Morpheus using a 50yo actor felt so sad.
6) The fight with some French guy shouting poetry was bizarre and weird. All those fights felt like there was nothing at stake at all.
7) The plot got more and more convoluted, bizarre stuff fabricated to get Trinity out of her bathtub.
8) The creatures made out of video sand look extremely expensive to put into the movie, and they had zero personality.
9) Having some of the robots on the good guys side was cute but again added little to the plot and had little personality.
10) Towards the end it changed into a zombie movie, and at no point (at all) did I feel anyone was in danger.
11) "Oh now he is going up to the roof and Neo is trapped up here". Are you naughty word serious? He is just running around holding down the ctrl key, putting up a magical force field through which nothing can penetrate. Its a joke.
12) Yeah of course, Neo is not the one, its a strong female woman who is the one, and she rescues him because we need to tear down our old white males (like Luke Skywalker).

Complete and utter garbage, I 100% wish I could erase this movie from my mind.

The one thing, I am so pleased for, is that Lawrence Fishburne did not have this disaster on his resume. But they better have paid him for how much footage they used of him.

Can you believe if you google Matrix 4 cast

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GMMichael

Guide of Modos
1) Too many weird split flash backs to the first movie "Mr Anderson" because they couldn't get the actual Mr Anderson...
2) 90 year old grandmother is running the free world? Ok insert Biden jokes but still.
3) When Neo was rescued grandmas first reaction is "I take your ship and lockup Neo". Incredibly unrealistic.
4) Neo is locked up, 5 mins later, "nope we break you out, yay", ugh plot easy.
5) Redoing the scene where they are learning martial arts neo vs fake Morpheus using a 50yo actor felt so sad.
6) The fight with some French guy shouting poetry was bizarre and weird. All those fights felt like there was nothing at stake at all.
7) The plot got more and more convoluted, bizarre stuff fabricated to get Trinity out of her bathtub.
8) The creatures made out of video sand look extremely expensive to put into the movie, and they had zero personality.
9) Having some of the robots on the good guys side was cute but again added little to the plot and had little personality.
10) Towards the end it changed into a zombie movie, and at no point (at all) did I feel anyone was in danger.
11) "Oh now he is going up to the roof and Neo is trapped up here". Are you naughty word serious? He is just running around holding down the ctrl key, putting up a magical force field through which nothing can penetrate. Its a joke.
12) Yeah of course, Neo is not the one, its a strong female woman who is the one, and she rescues him because we need to tear down our old white males (like Luke Skywalker).
XP for effort. Some things that might help you enjoy your second viewing (because the movie does warrant it):
  • Niobe's mission was to ensure the safety of the human/machine co-op, Io. If Neo knows where Io is, what could happen if he goes back into the Matrix?
  • The french guy was the Merivingian (sp), from Matrix 2, I think. In that movie, he was living the Illuminati life as an exile (?), who carries over from matrix to matrix. In 4, his role changed a bit to resemble the grognards we have here. (Back in my day...)
  • Robots on the good guys' side is actually the main theme of the movie. The solutions in the movie weren't "us or them ." They were "us and them.". Neo and Smith. Humans and machines. Blue and red ( or neither, depending on the scene).
 

bennet

Explorer
XP for effort. Some things that might help you enjoy your second viewing (because the movie does warrant it):
  • Niobe's mission was to ensure the safety of the human/machine co-op, Io. If Neo knows where Io is, what could happen if he goes back into the Matrix?
Still no idea what that means or who "Io" or "lo" is
 

Mallus

Legend
Still no idea what that means or who "Io" or "lo" is
Io is the city Niobe runs. It’s probably I/O, ie input/output.

Resurrections isn’t going to work for people who aren’t at least tolerant of metafiction. But the Matrix has always been a bit meta, yeah?
 

bennet

Explorer
Io is the city Niobe runs. It’s probably I/O, ie input/output.

Resurrections isn’t going to work for people who aren’t at least tolerant of metafiction. But the Matrix has always been a bit meta, yeah?
Not sure which of my 12 issues being more tolerant of metafiction fixes.
 

Mallus

Legend
Not sure which of my 12 issues being more tolerant of metafiction fixes.
For starters, it would help you appreciate what the film was trying to do.

As for your points...

#1 The flashbacks are important because Matrix 4 is about The Matrix (ie, the film franchise). This is why I brought up metafiction.
#2 Zion was run by a Council of (Mostly) Elders. This is fairly common in genre fiction. Not sure why Old Niobe running Io is an issue.
#3 Bugs and her crew rescuing Neo was a provocation. There's peace between the humans & machines. Niobe was reacting to Bugs threatening that.
#5 That scene was beautifully shot (the warm colors, the Buddhist lake house). And it starts with Morpheus tossing what looks like a cocktail out a window, which made me laugh.
#6 The French guy was the Merovingian from Matrix 2. He was a metafictional joke about meaningless cameos in sequels/reboots.
#7 Despite leaning heavily into metafiction, Matrix 4 is still a sci-fi movie. The transhuman heist to free Trinity from her pod was a cool bit of sci-fi.
#8 The digital natives incarnating in the physical world as nanomachines clouds was clever - you're right, though, could have used more personality when in cloud-mode.
#10 It changed into a zombie video game.
#11) Well he is The One (mostly). God Mode cheats are kinda his thing.
#12. You're mad because Trinity got to fly this time? Can't help you with that.

I thought 4 was really interesting. But I admit, it's definitely not for everyone. In part, that's why I like it - expensive blockbusters that still feel like personal films are rare (and rarely bit hits - James Gunn & Taika Watiti movies being some of the exceptions).
 
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Stalker0

Legend
#12. You're mad because Trinity got to fly this time? Can't help you with that.
The issue here is not the notion that Trinity gets to be as cool as Neo and have similar powers. The issue....which is the issue with the entire movie...is how.

If the movie wants to say that Neo's love allowed him to impress into Trinity some of his powers...ok. If the movie wants to say that the resurrection of them both copied some of Neo's power into Trinity....ok. If the movie wants to say that in Trinity's new life she exhibited the same "life choices" that Neo did in his original life which triggered the "systemic anomaly"...ok.

There are ways to do it, but the movie chooses to abandon all rationale for a "cool scene". That happens way too damn often in movies now a days and I'm tired of it. You don't get to set up a narrative that Neo is a special anomaly due to a very specific set of circumstances and choices in his life, a power that is so special we literally call him "The One".....and then just give that to another character with no explanation. That is lazy storytelling at its worst.

And that is fundamentally my issue with the whole movie...its a terrible story. Plot just happens with no explanation, characters act with no real motivation. I don't care that the story is meta or a commentary on modern XYZ if its a crap story.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
. . . the movie chooses to abandon all rationale for a "cool scene". That happens way too damn often in movies now a days and I'm tired of it. You don't get to set up a narrative that Neo is a special anomaly due to a very specific set of circumstances and choices in his life, a power that is so special we literally call him "The One".....and then just give that to another character with no explanation. That is lazy storytelling at its worst.

And that is fundamentally my issue with the whole movie...its a terrible story. Plot just happens with no explanation, characters act with no real motivation. I don't care that the story is meta or a commentary on modern XYZ if its a crap story.
Obviously, Tiffany is the Plus One because she digs motorcycles. /snark

Good point about having reasons, but there wasn't a whole lot of reasoning behind Mr. Anderson being the One either. The first movie nodded at Neo's special abilities coming from proximity to Trinity (saving her from crashing, dodging bullets, getting a smooch), so it's consistent (if nothing else) for 4 to nod at the same source of anomaly: proximity/love.

Oracle: "Being the One is like being in love . . . "
 



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