Matrix Revolutions - just watched it again

[takyris]

There's no need to correct you because that's just the way Hollywood normally works. Star Wars could have stood alone without Empire and Jedi, but the next two parts were allowed to be made because the movie generated enough money and George Lucas made it clear that there was a much bigger story to be told.

But Lucas was up-front from the beginning about it being a trilogy. The creators of the Matrix, from what I've read, were all about it being one movie. They didn't start talking about the continuing story until they got a big honkin' load of money. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. It's hardly a passion of mine, and this is just from a few interviews. In the pre-first-movie ones, they're talking about the story of that one movie, never even hinting of it as a possible trilogy (from what I read).

In fact, Star Wars was in my mind as a stark contrast to the Matrix -- the former was a series whose first movie did stand on its own but also clearly indicated future stories and completions of other arcs, while the latter seemed, to me at least, to be clearly self-contained, with no real need for a sequel.

It was clear that the story was not over at the end of the first Matrix movie.

I do not believe this to be an accurate statement. It was certainly not clear to me. It does not seem to have been clear to others, based on popular commentary.

The main difference between the Matrix and Star Wars is that in Star Wars Luke was allowed to continue on his road to becoming a hero throughout the second and third parts whereas Neo achieved heroic status in part 1.

The most likely reason for this difference being that the Matrix was meant to be one standalone movie.

Nevertheless, that doesn't diminish my enjoyment of them.

From all relevant perspectives, that's the most important thing. I'm quite happily at a point now where I don't watch movies because I ought to like them, and I don't shy away from movies because I shouldn't like them. As long as you enjoy it, life is good.

Exactly. The Oracle only makes sense within the context of a larger story.

Actually, the Oracle worked fine for me in the first movie all by herself. I mean, she wasn't particularly plausible without additional information, but when you strip away the sci-fi gloss of virtual reality and actually look at the nature of the plot, it's a traditional fantasy story. And traditional fantasy stories always have mysterious old soothsayers who elliptically tell Prophecy Lad that he's destined to save the kingdom -- or, in this case, tell him that he's not destined to save the kingdom, specifically in order to psych him out so that he later feels compelled to go save the kingdom anyway.

 

[KenM]

The other thing I don't buy in the Matrix movies, once you know that the matrix is fake, how can you allow yourself to be hurt in it? Neo was basically a god inside the matrix, and he knew that he could not get hurt in it. But everyone else still allowed themself to get hurt inside the matrix even though they knew it was not real, so how could they get hurt? By everyone else, I mean the other awakened freedom fighters that jacked in.

 

[KainG]

I thoroughly enjoyed all 3 Matrix movies. There may be a difference in how much I enjoyed each one, but as long as I enjoyed the movie and was entertained, all is well.

Strangely enough, I enjoyed Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions more on my second and third viewing once I got the DVDs. It's got plenty of style, kung fu-gravity-defying martial arts action, big explosions with big robots, and a twisted little sotryline with a couple of interesting ideas. These movies are a hell of a lot better than the rest of the crap out there. Whisperfoot did a pretty good job refuting some of the criticisms already.

Regarding APU and protection, I've always found it curious to why so many people were hung up about it. Let's look at it this way: If a sentinel grabs you, you're pretty much dead. No amount of armor is going to prevent that squiddie from cracking you open like an egg (it didn't help those APU guys in Second Renaissance, that's for sure). And remember that sentinel's can cut through the hull of a hovercraft. Besides, APUs seem to be designed only for offense, i.e. Kill them before they kill you.

So, since armor is going to protect you much anyway, why waste resources on it, especially if you've got very limited resources like Zion. Instead, you'd use those resources to make more bullets, or more spare APU parts. Additionally, since once the sentinel has you, you're dead, so why not make it so you have the best chance of evading it? Take off the armor so your APU can be lighter and maybe even more maneuverable. Heck, you might even have more room for more bullets to kill them with!

And if we decide to ignore all that, the simple reason why APUs in the Matrix movies have no armor is because, visually, the movie looks better. By exposing the pilots, you can visually see that it's human vs machine (despite the humans controlling machines themselves). You get to see their expressions, their pain, their rage. If they were all covered up, it would just look like machine vs machine.

Think about it, which would be more intense: seeing Capt. Mafune rage in fury, bleeding and singed, against a backdrop of fiery explosions, or inside a sterile cockpit with blinking lights?

Oh, and I don't know how many know about this site, but I always visit here after each time I watch one of the Matrix movies. Brian Takle's essays have some pretty good ideas, and gives some depth to the movies (whether the Wachowski Bros. intended for it or not). Even though I don't always agree with his interpretations, they're vey good reads.

 

[KenM]

And remember that sentinel's can cut through the hull of a hovercraft.

Think about it, which would be more intense: seeing Capt. Mafune rage in fury, bleeding and singed, against a backdrop of fiery explosions, or inside a sterile cockpit with blinking lights?

Yes they can cut though, but while they are busy cutting though the metal or whatever you have between it and you, you have time to react and try to do something to survive.
I never said that the APUs should have a full enclosed cockpit. But they should put something, anything to help prevent the sentials to get to them quicker. They could have gotten the same reaction to the Capt. Mafune death secne if they had clear plexiglass or a something where you could see the piolt. The scene you mention did not have the effect that the writers were going for, for me, because as he was bleeding to death, all I could think was "well, if they designed the APU's with protection for the piolt, this type of crap would not happen as much. There is no way you could get me to piolt one of those things with out any protection."

 

[s/LaSH]

Well, I liked the trilogy for what it was - action movies which you have to think about. (And people are still thinking about them, which impresses me. Realise that you didn't buy tickets for a two-hour-odd movie, you bought tickets for the next couple of years of discussion. You wouldn't have this thread and the hundreds like it if you hadn't bought those tickets. Great value for money.)

Although it's difficult to remain happy when so many people seem intent on raining on my parade, so to speak... gah, there's no way to phrase that that doesn't sound accusatory, which isn't my intent. So disclaimer: Not accusatory.

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

I'll admit, I was very excited in 2000 or so when I heard about the Matrix sequels. Then, just before the movies came out last year, I went back and watched the first one again. My immediate thought as Neo flew into the camera was "Wow, this movie really doesn't need a sequel." It didn't even seem like the filmmakers were setting it up for sequels, the way so many first-act movies unabashedly do nowadays. There's a few loose ends but everything ties up rather nicely: the personification of evil is toast, the hero gets the girl, the status quo is shaken up, and they even avoided the cliched Campbellian trope of offing the Teacher/Mentor character.

What I thought would have been neat at the time was a TV series or comic, the Further Adventures of Neo or Matrix: TNG or something. Continuing storylines about the war, different crews, new enemies, and the impact of having a living god strutting around the Matrix. Having seen the sequels, I still think this should have been the route to go. They don't detract from the original (still a GREAT film) but they don't add much enjoyment either, in the way ESB and ROTJ did for Star Wars.

Given ten hours with a TV, a DVD player, the Matrix trilogy and nothing to do, in the end I think I'd rather watch the first one three times than the trilogy all the way through.

 

[TracerBullet42]

Given ten hours with a TV, a DVD player, the Matrix trilogy and nothing to do, in the end I think I'd rather watch the first one three times than the trilogy all the way through.

I couldn't agree more. Well, I probably could if I really gave it some more thought...but I'll just settle to agree a lot with you.

<pulls finger>

 

[Celtavian]

re

I'm really disappointed because the Matrix trilogy did not live up to the hype. It started off great. The first movie was really unique and interesting with some new and genuinely creative fight sequences and special effects.

The 2nd movie didn't do a very good job of blending the story and action like the first movie. I didn't like the 2nd movie all that much though the twins were pretty cool as was the fight atop the moving semis.

The 3rd movie was boring. The story moved slow and was mostly reinforcing already developed themes in an obvious and cliche manner. The end of the movie was like one big cliche drawn from so many other movies that did it better. The sacrifice of war, Neo giving his life to save humanity, and piloting the ship through a small space to set off a big bomb to stop the machine assault. Very cliche. Bored the living hell out of me. Matrix Revolutions hardly kept my attention. I kept thinking about other things and daydreaming while watching the movie. Very poor ending with little new or creative to offer. Even the fight sequence with Smith was utterly boring, looked like something straight out of Superman 2.

The Wachowski's really robbed alot of other movies to make the Matrix trilogy. The series is nothing more than a mish mash of other popular movies. The first Matrix is the most original and interesting of the three. It's too bad they couldn't have done a better job on the sequels to the first.

 

[drnuncheon]

She did alsmot nothing too, except help kill Agent Smith in the real world. Her death didn't further the story. Why did she even go along at the end?

Note that if she hadn't been there, the blinded Neo would not have been able to get to the machine city. So her presence was necessary for Neo to fulfill his destiny.

J

 

[milotha]

Note that if she hadn't been there, the blinded Neo would not have been able to get to the machine city. So her presence was necessary for Neo to fulfill his destiny.
J

Not really. Neo could have been an active participant in the third movie. He coluld have seen without Trinity. Why did they even need to blind him? Oh wait, it made everything seem deeper, more mystical. More like Dune. I still contend that Trinity's death had no purpose at the end of the movie. It was really sad to see such a strong female character come to naught. The brother's wrote themselves into a corner with the first movie, and they really had no idea where to go after that. Except cash two more checks.

Trying to rationalize one bad decision based on another bad decision is just pointless. There were so many other better ways to have taken this whole movie. Too bad. There were so many great things they could have done with the third movie which ruined any enjoyment I derived out of the second movie.