Max melee damage at 1st level - core vs. non-core

[Artoomis]

I don't think this kind of challenge will reveal anything meaningful about core vs. non-core. Max "best-case" damage has little or nothing to do with game balance.

Also, in my experience the end result depends mostly on how the OP is interpreted and how cheesy you're willing to get.

In that vein I'd suggest taking advantage of the Combat Reflexes feat. All those extra attacks should do wonders for the total damage.

It's just for fun, right?

 

[pawsplay]

120 damage: bull rush the foe out of a cliff. More damage is he falls on a trap.

Bull rushing someone off a 200' cliff onto lava was already rejected on page one.

 

[nittanytbone]

This would be far more useful if you were calculating average damage, not maximum damage (on a crit, if the sun is shining, if I roll all maximum, if I hit, etc...).

On an "average" situation, I think a Paladin with a lance, Power Attack, Holy Smite, and Divine Might would do pretty well. Add a few levels (or flaws, if allowed) and throw in Spirited Charge and its obviously a damage beast.

 

[starwed]

It's impossible to calculate a useful average damage unless you now how the AC's of your opponents will be distributed. (Because the optimal power attack will depend on how easily it is to hit.)

You could do it for a given AC, of course, and it would probably actually be harder than optimizing max damage.

 

[KarinsDad]

He also isn't likely to be able to cast two Magic Weapon spells and Divine Favor and Enlarge Person at 1st level.

Scribe Scroll.

 

[Nail]

It's impossible to calculate a useful average damage unless you now how the AC's of your opponents will be distributed.

Given the average AC of opponents in the MM, and assuming CR 1/2, that AC is 15.

 

[pawsplay]

This would be far more useful if you were calculating average damage, not maximum damage (on a crit, if the sun is shining, if I roll all maximum, if I hit, etc...).

On an "average" situation, I think a Paladin with a lance, Power Attack, Holy Smite, and Divine Might would do pretty well. Add a few levels (or flaws, if allowed) and throw in Spirited Charge and its obviously a damage beast.

Right, but then you want to calculate average damage over the course of a fight of average length, rather than just one charge.

 

[KarinsDad]

Given the average AC of opponents in the MM, and assuming CR 1/2, that AC is 15.

Yes, but if you do this, then some of these solutions do less damage. For example, if you had 2 attacks per round and used an average opponent in the MM, the first attack would kill it and the second attack would not do anything unless you had more than one opponent.

Maybe some guidelines like number of rounds of prep, number of opponents, difficulty of opponents, etc. from the OP.

If prep rounds are allowed, then a solution which does all of its damage in a single round should be allowed to be used on the prep rounds as well since an apples and apples comparison would be max damage in x rounds.

 

[Artoomis]

Can't we just stick with the rules as presented? Let's not complicate things and hijack this to be a different discussion than intended.

I think Thurbane is looking for the max you can do in one round, no prep allowed. Probability of success is irrelevent. This excerise has nothing to do with practicality, it's just for fun to support some sort of esoteric debate or article.

If we want to change the focus, we should ask Thurbane first, since this is his discussion.

 

[KarinsDad]

Can't we just stick with the rules as presented? Let's not complicate things and hijack this to be a different discussion than intended.

I think Thurbane is looking for the max you can do in one round, no prep allowed. Probability of success is irrelevent. This excerise has nothing to do with practicality, it's just for fun to support some sort of esoteric debate or article.

If we want to change the focus, we should ask Thurbane first, since this is his discussion.

In that case, why are you presenting assumptions as to what Thurbane wants?

He did not yet say no prep allowed. If he disallows it, does this mean that a weapon is already drawn and a full round attack can be made? Let's let him decide.

Is it standard actions only (and hence, only a single attack) or can full round attacks be done?

He originally said core. That means AoOs and charges and buffs, but later on, he started changing that.

But, he has been real vague as to the limitations. Let's let him list what he wants to limit it to without implying that other people are changing the discussion.

Course, if he limits it at all, it is not core.