Maximized Ball Lightning

[Meeki]

Sounds like the worm also had 2 wisdom. Even insects will move away from something that is hurting them. Although the ball does move 30 ft a round I bet that worm can burrow pretty fast. What is exceptionally silly is that CR 20 creature had no sr, terrible reflex saves, and never reached the party?
I don't know the full details of that spell but if its a free action to direct and lasts 1/rd a level and does 15d6 electricity damage with reflex negates its pretty powerful for a lvl 4 spell. At least from what I can gather if a 14 lvl can also cast it sudden maximized, its level 4. If its level 5 its a great spell.
Also, if you are a lvl 18 wizard you should easily be able to handle a slow cr20 creature with no spell resistance. You were in the right, the dm just didn't play the creature that well.

 

[Victim]

It's level 5 and a move action to direct. I'd have to add that the move action cost gets our wizard in a lot of trouble, since he's basically a static target when casting and using ball lightning. Foes end up engaging him at close range all the time.

 

[frankthedm]

Ahem...

The ball moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you), otherwise it merely stays at rest, damaging any creature in its space. It cannot push aside unwilling creatures or batter down large obstacles. The lightning winks out if it exceeds the spell’s range.

TBH, I'd make it a standard action to direct the ball, let the ball actually fly and change it to reflex save for half rather than reflex save negates.

 

[Meeki]

Yea, reflex negates is in there to allow the spell to be a decent level and metamagic-able. As a lvl 5 spell as written its pretty neat, although 15d6 cap is pretty massive. Move action to direct is sensible since its essentially a souped up flaming sphere.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

What is exceptionally silly is that CR 20 creature had no sr, terrible reflex saves, and never reached the party?

The worm has very good SR. I, however, as an elemental savant with Spell Penetration have a 26+D20 to overcome SR with an acid spell, so I was able to overcome even a good SR fairly easily.

The worm may or may not have had good REF saves, but the DC of the spell at my level is..
10+5(spell level)+8(CHA bonus)+2(SF and GSF Evocation)+2(Elemental Savant10)=27. Thats not a gimme for a colossal bug.

The party didn't even enter the location. I, as an earth elemental went Greater Invisible and travelled along to the ceiling of the cave above it directing it into the monster as it ran around. I do not know if it had a burrow speed or not. I am trying not to give away too many details to avoid spoilers to those going to battle one later.

DS

 

[Darklone]

Sounds like a new tactic to annoy the tarrasque.

 

[TheGogmagog]

1d6/level max 15 for 1 round/level is quite powerful, and as far as I know wholy unprecidented. Usually duration spells are fixed (2d6 for flaming sphere, 2d4 for acid arrow) or at least do x/2 levels AND halved max dice. I don't know if the reflex-negates mitigates those advantages, also it affects a single target, and yet is one level higher than the area of effect 15d6 max reflex spells.

If you('re DM) are the type of people who line item veto or alter spells, this might be a good canidite. Our insane-o-meter for our group is to move a spell as written to a higher level, then see how often it's cast.

I also note that reflex negates the damage, which makes it immune to improved evasion. Granted you would still need to make a rogue fail a reflex save, but if he did, he's taking full damage.

One more note, the second round you could move it into the targets square and cast resilient sphere, or wall of force if in a corner etc...

 

[Plane Sailing]

1d6/level max 15 for 1 round/level is quite powerful, and as far as I know wholy unprecidented. Usually duration spells are fixed (2d6 for flaming sphere, 2d4 for acid arrow) or at least do x/2 levels AND halved max dice. I don't know if the reflex-negates mitigates those advantages, also it affects a single target, and yet is one level higher than the area of effect 15d6 max reflex spells.

The nearest equivalent is 5th level Call Lightning Storm, which can do 5d6 damage per round up to your level times (max 15). Does 5d10 if there is stormy weather or a handy air elemental whirlwind around. Range is Long and each strike is 30ft vertical (so could conceivably catch two creatures if you are lucky)

It costs a standard action to call each bolt

 

[Corsair]

Compared to say, an Empowered Scintilating Sphere (like fireball, but electric) both at cap, both can do 15d6. Both give SR and reflex saves. the SS can catch multiple things at once, while the BL can catch the same monster multiple times. Include range advantage for SS and the Reflex Negates for the BL, and you make up for the fact that the BL *might* be able to do more damage over the long haul.

Obviously not an exact comparison (especially once you start including metamagic on top of it, since maximize would interact with each differently) but close enough for my point.

Also I'd like to point out that Sudden Maximize makes a big difference since you aren't talking about a 5th level spell any more. (One of my main complaints about the sudden metamagic feats actually)