Maxwell's Silver Hammer: On Spells, Design, and the feeling of Sameyness in 5e

[tetrasodium]

@lowkey13 really nailed a lot of good points in the first post, but adding to that is the fact that certain classes lack anything mechanical to really differentiate themselves from another class with the same spell list. A cleric, druid, ranger, & Paladin will feel & present viscerally different from each other during play because the core class brings so much other than spell list to the table... Meanwhile a wizard and sorcerer will seem the same unless a sorcerer says "I use a bonus action & flexible casting to...", says "I use x metamagic" or the wizard says "my spellbook" without bonus feats. With pretty much all of the former wizard bonus feat options either being given to sorcerer at level 2 or are now listed as "Warlock invocations" it only exacerbates things for the wizard

 

[TwoSix]

Well, I am working on it now and my idea anyway was to devote spells to cleric and druid first since they have fewer, and then see what is left for the wizard. Cherry -picking here and there afterwards if I feel I need to restore some to Wizard.

Yea, that's generally what I'm doing. Druid and Cleric kept their mainstays. I pulled out most mind affecting stuff, planar and soul stuff, and warlock stuff and gave that to clerics. Druids got any necromancy that wasn't tied to souls and undead, and most elemental effects that aren't instantaneous. Wizards kept most blowing up stuff, personal protection effects, and weird dimensional and illusion effects.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yea, that's generally what I'm doing. Druid and Cleric kept their mainstays. I pulled out most mind affecting stuff, planar and soul stuff, and warlock stuff and gave that to clerics. Druids got any necromancy that wasn't tied to souls and undead, and most elemental effects that aren't instantaneous. Wizards kept most blowing up stuff, personal protection effects, and weird dimensional and illusion effects.

How much overlap are you allowing? I am shooting for none, but honestly I feel like if I do some key spells will be lost to some lists.

 

[TwoSix]

How much overlap are you allowing? I am shooting for none, but honestly I feel like if I do some key spells will be lost to some lists.

None. I'm trying to keep to @lowkey13's premise as much as possible, and losing important capabilities, to my mind, simply helps enforce the niche protection.

First pass, hopefully this link works.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[DND_Reborn]

None. I'm trying to keep to @lowkey13's premise as much as possible, and losing important capabilities, to my mind, simply helps enforce the niche protection.

First pass, hopefully this link works.

I can copy/paste and compare to mine when I am done. I don't want to look at yours now since it might bias my own choices.

 

[TwoSix]

I can copy/paste and compare to mine when I am done. I don't want to look at yours now since it might bias my own choices.

Yea, I'd appreciate seeing yours when you're done. Do a compare and contrast on some of the more difficult choices.

 

[TwoSix]

Hey, I appreciate the shout out, but you do the work, you call the shots.

No worries, I actually enjoy having the more difficult constraint. "You can have all the spells you need" takes away part of the fun.

This may be related to why I like sorcerers more than most folks.

 

[tetrasodium]

@TwoSix @dnd4vr You can also dramatically pad out the spell lists using swordmeow's spells & things like Grimlore's Grimoire

 

[DND_Reborn]

@TwoSix @dnd4vr You can also dramatically pad out the spell lists using swordmeow's spells & things like Grimlore's Grimoire

I don't have all the books, but a web-site has most (if not all) the spells currently I think. I am starting with just the PHB and then adding more later.