D&D 5E Meaningful Consequences of Failure for Picking Locks

[werecorpse]

Satyrn's got it.

I usually don't bother with consequences to failure for treasure chest locks beyond setting off traps. Maybe breaking lock to make it unuseable (PCs don't care)? But doors can have more consequences as they are more dynamic.

Example
Door lock
DC 23+ super quiet, bugbear in next room still asleep
DC 18+ get through quickly without making much noise - bugbear on the other side is still prone but awake and has grabbed weapon
DC 13-17 takes a couple of rounds and a bit of noise bugbear awake, no longer prone and has his weapon
DC 7-12 takes a minute or so. As above plus bugbear has hissed a warning into the next room and is attempting to hide next to the door (DC 16 perception to notice) - 2 hobgoblins will enter the room on round 2
DC 6 or less takes a couple of minutes, as above plus two hobgoblins from deeper in the complex will be in the room. The complex is alert.

 

[Alexemplar]

Then why have the lock at all? Or if you have the lock for world reasons, why bother requiring a roll? Unless the delay matters, all this does is allow the party to Long Rest before continuing.

I imagine that having to wait a day or two would be a consequence in many a situation.

Locks aren't meant to outright thwart a determined and prepared lockpicker with unlimited time and no pressure. They're supposed to slow them down until a guard on patrol comes around or an alarm can be sounded.

Not even bank vaults rely solely in their vault to protect their money. Thay have alarms and guards and other safety meaaure they can afford too.

 

[Dualazi]

I’m with Shiroiken. There needs to be meaningful consequences for failure, and I personally go with the no re-roll (at least for a full day or so). Failing forward is great in some situations, but it can’t be overused or it just reinforces the player’s mentality that they can’t truly fail in a task, and locks are so common that things can quickly get crazy if you’re constantly making use of it.

The problem with locks is that the PCs are meant to get through them. The adventure would end if the PCs fail to get into the dungeon. I agree that there should be some sort of penalty, but there should also be another way around it. I like adding 5 to the DC and letting a try on the next round and having to wait a day if that failed as well.

I definitely disagree. If your dungeon only has one way into it then there are poor design decisions beyond the nature of locks. Being stymied at that stealthy approach might mean breaking down the door, using knock, becoming ethereal, scaling dangerous walls, trying to smuggle yourselves in… I mean there’s a mountain of tropes and narrative devices to get around this hypothetical door, and being forced to adapt to the unexpected is part of the charm of playing and running the game. If I knew I would always have some degree of lock-picking success that would bore me as a player, and encourage me to be lazy as a DM.

 

[werecorpse]

I’m with Shiroiken. There needs to be meaningful consequences for failure, and I personally go with the no re-roll (at least for a full day or so). Failing forward is great in some situations, but it can’t be overused or it just reinforces the player’s mentality that they can’t truly fail in a task, and locks are so common that things can quickly get crazy if you’re constantly making use of it.



I definitely disagree. If your dungeon only has one way into it then there are poor design decisions beyond the nature of locks. Being stymied at that stealthy approach might mean breaking down the door, using knock, becoming ethereal, scaling dangerous walls, trying to smuggle yourselves in… I mean there’s a mountain of tropes and narrative devices to get around this hypothetical door, and being forced to adapt to the unexpected is part of the charm of playing and running the game. If I knew I would always have some degree of lock-picking success that would bore me as a player, and encourage me to be lazy as a DM.

I agree with your second paragraph, good design is about options, bad design is about only one path and only one way to get into the path, but I don't think having to wait a day to re roll is necessarily a consequence or makes much sense. What's the fiction that means that a day later you can reroll but you couldn't a minute later? What's the real consequence of being a day later through the door that wouldn't have been in effect being a couple of minutes later anyway?

I am not keen on the one try issue having too often had the wizard roll the "lucky 7%" chance to bend/bars lift gates after the fighters failed and couldn't try again.

 

[Lanefan]

The problem with locks is that the PCs are meant to get through them. The adventure would end if the PCs fail to get into the dungeon. I agree that there should be some sort of penalty, but there should also be another way around it.

There usually are other ways through. They're called axes, hammers, boulders, and shoulders.

Or a "Knock" spell.

Lan-"if all else fails, throw the Thief at the door as hard as you can - it might not open but it'll at least be satisfying"-efan

 

[Lanefan]

The idea behind no-reroll is that the one roll you make represents your best attempt, period; as opposed to just one of many attempts where you can just try again. (in other words, it builds all the rolls into one)

And a failure option that hasn't been mentioned yet (or if it has I missed it) is that while your tools survive you've mangled the lock itself in your attempt to open it, and now the key won't even open it.

Speaking of keys - it's amazing how often a party struggles with a locked door when they've in fact got access to the key - somewhere - if they just look carefully for it.

Lan-"forgot in previous post picks and shovels as an alternate way through for an all-Dwarf party"-efan

 

[Dualazi]

I agree with your second paragraph, good design is about options, bad design is about only one path and only one way to get into the path, but I don't think having to wait a day to re roll is necessarily a consequence or makes much sense. What's the fiction that means that a day later you can reroll but you couldn't a minute later? What's the real consequence of being a day later through the door that wouldn't have been in effect being a couple of minutes later anyway?

I am not keen on the one try issue having too often had the wizard roll the "lucky 7%" chance to bend/bars lift gates after the fighters failed and couldn't try again.

Presumably because the lock-picker had time to clear their head, rest, and possibly practice or research the lock in question. I would liken it to attempting a new PR in weightlifting, some days you go in raring to go and it just isn’t happening and you need another day of rest, or more time spent at your current weight. Ultimately though it’s more about moving the game along, pointedly saying “that option has failed, who else has ideas?” gives the option for other people to get involved or other plans to be concocted.

Narratively I would say the wizard example was him taking advantage of the fighter loosening the bars already, but it sounds like I would have simply asked for a group check in that circumstance and had them fail or succeed as a team. Group checks are criminally underused in my opinion.

 

[raleel]

It really depends a lot on the environment, in my mind. Without patrolling monsters in the area or some other time derived challenge, time based penalties are going to be irrelevant, and thus retrying will be a thing that will be desired and no rational reason can be made for it not to happen. This is what happens in current crime, where if a lock cannot be picked quickly or safely, but the locked item can be taken quickly and safely, they'll just take the locked item and unlock it with time and safety.

I like to have a failure mode that involves an alternative path towards the goal, but is perhaps riskier, or involves a different set of skills. This is equivalent in some ways to a reroll, but rather than having the thief just roll again, you switch it up a bit. perhaps the alternative leads through monsters. Perhaps it requires investigation and there is a secret door that bypasses the lock.

A great little game I picked up called Black Seven puts picking locks (called crack, as it covers a number of lock like mechanisms, including electronic ones) into a category called Positioning Actions. If you fail a positioning action, you make an immediate Infiltration (aka stealth) roll. If you fail that, you are Noticed by the opposition in the facility, and they are on alert. It is much harder to sneak up on folks and take them out. This suggests to me that failure might mean a Stealth check. Failing that alerts the monsters that someone is around.

 

[jayoungr]

Hoard of the Dragon Queen has a good example of how to make a lock interesting, with multiple possible outcomes. Early on in the adventure (p. 8), the PCs need to open a grate blocking an old tunnel which has not been used for a long time:

Years of exposure and neglect have corroded the lock on the exit grate. Even with the key, a successful DC 10 Dexterity check is needed to open the lock. Without the key, the DC increases to 20. If the roll misses by 5 or more, the key or thieves’ tools break off in the lock so that unlocking it becomes impossible. Then only a successful DC 15 Strength check can force the grate open.

Foes. A group of cultists is searching the stream banks for hiding townsfolk when the characters emerge from the tunnel. If characters open the lock with the key or with thieves’ tools, the first one to exit notices the raiders approaching without being spotted in return; the characters can keep out of sight in the tunnel or try to ambush the raiders after they pass.... If the grate had to be broken open with a Strength check, the raiders hear the noise and find cover; they wait for the characters to exit the tunnel, then gain a surprise round.

 

[iserith]

In the absence of more situational stakes, I tend to go with breaking the thieves' tools or costing the PCs extra time, which results in a wandering monster check.