Mearls redesigns the Ogre Mage

[Scribble]

Yep, that pretty much sums up everything I've seen him do.

I'm much more in favor of an Ogre with class levels if one wished to change it.

Yeah, but you can do that still if you want... Ogre Mage is kind of like an ogre with special inborn powers... for some reason.

It's not saying this is the revision fo the Ogre Mage you have to use... It's just (in my opinion) saying this is what the OM would be if they designed it today...

 

[Mark CMG]

(. . .) you have to assume it knows how to use its abilities in the best way possible.

Many DMs (even "seasoned" ones) won't always know this, especially in the heat of battle.

To my mind that is not a reason to strip down the features, it's a reason to bulk up the skills of DMs. D&D is complex but not really complicated. Some creatures require more detailed presentation to help show DMs how to use them to full advantage. I like that. I also like that players cannot bullet point the features of a creature as soon as they discover it.

 

[demiurge1138]

I like it quite a bit, actually - it's better than the extremely fragile 3.5 version (which I never liked anyway). I'd definately consider giving them back charm monster once per day, for the out-of-combat usefulness described above.

Demiurge out.

 

[Mark CMG]

I remember reading an article somewhere (don't remember where) where they compaired the 3.0 and the 3.5 version of a couple of monsters.

(. . .)

The idea was to try and quicken combat a bit by streamlining the abilities listed in the stat block.

I remember it as well. This, too, seems to me a reason to help DMs sharpen their skills rather than strip down the features. There are, admittedly, some exceptions and the Maralith might fall into that group.

 

[Scribble]

To my mind that is not a reason to strip down the features, it's a reason to bulk up the skills of DMs. D&D is complex but not really complicated. Some creatures require more detailed presentation to help show DMs how to use them to full advantage. I like that. I also like that players cannot bullet point the features of a creature as soon as they discover it.

Yeah, but if those features again, aren't going to be used, the players can still bullet point the features... Just as "the ones that can hurt us..."

And true, it's not terribly complicated, but it does require a good bit of memorization.
It's easy at times, to forget that something won't really work and use it anyway... Why make more effort for the DM?

This way, more people can just run the game, and those DMs that are "bulked up" and understand what they're doing, can start doing things like adding special abilities to monsters that don't have them.

 

[mhensley]

Well, yes. You'll notice that these are MM1 creatures he's hacking.

Yep, he's showing us the process he is going through to create the MM1 for 4th edition.

 

[painandgreed]

Yeah, but you can do that still if you want... Ogre Mage is kind of like an ogre with special inborn powers... for some reason.

It's not saying this is the revision fo the Ogre Mage you have to use... It's just (in my opinion) saying this is what the OM would be if they designed it today...

Right, and I don't like their design process, philosophies, or results. (Much for the same reasons that JDJarvis mentions above) My fear is that this is a preview of 4E and it's going to be a flavorless much that I will not adopt, much like what happened to WW in the late 90's and with WoD 2.0. I like 3E. I has some good changes as well as some poor ones. I feel that the next system may be past the point of diminishing returns.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Right, and I don't like their design process, philosophies, or results. (Much for the same reasons that JDJarvis mentions above) My fear is that this is a preview of 4E and it's going to be a flavorless much that I will not adopt, much like what happened to WW in the late 90's and with WoD 2.0. I like 3E. I has some good changes as well as some poor ones. I feel that the next system may be past the point of diminishing returns.

The next system will be post-OGL, so if you don't like it, I can guarantee you at least one publisher will come out with 3E-compatible versions of D&D, called something else, with all the old school stuff you can possibly want. (How they'll get the XP table in, I'm not sure, but I'm sure they'll think of something.)

 

[Stalker0]

I do enjoy the articles, as its neat to fool with mechanics and get issues everyone has an opinion on. I like the changes to the ogre mage, but now I feel the CR is too LOW!!

Here's my thinking:

A 5th level party has just gotten access to magics such as fly (hopefully, assuming there's a wizard in the party). But that hardly means they have it prepared or that they have it multiple times).

A creature that can fly at will cannot be followed by a 5th level party. Perhaps one guy can fly...maybe. And that means everyone else will be relying on ranged weapons. With fast healing and a better AC, the ogre mage can take a bit of punishment from ranged weapons.

In addition, with the SA, the orge mage can now do 5d6 +7 damage. That can easily take down a wizard in one shot. And again, 5th level is not so high that you would necessiarly expect a party to have see invisiblity ready to go. So ogre mage can come in invisible, strike down your mage, instantly become invisible again (swift invis) and be ready for more pain. And if the party manages to do some damage, he can fly out of range, heal up, and be ready to go again.

While CR 8 might be too high, I'm thinking CR 7 is a better number. Until you can reliably handle flying and invisible creatures, the ogre mage can be a true terror.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I like it. The old one was good for exactly one thing: running in with a cone of cold, then running away. It had no staying power, or real offense after that. Its the cheese equivalent of jumping the party with a bunch of 1st level kobold sorcerer each armed with a fireball scroll.

Any complaints about the loss of its useless sleep spell can be fixed with a single (nonassociated) level of sorcerer, wizard or bard. Same with its charm. It might be a bit tough for a CR 5, but its better than its predecessor.