Mearls said magic items could easily be dumped?

[Emirikol]

In relation to a different thread, I found this article:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=215894&postcount=28

He indicates that you can easily dump magic items (entirely) from the game with simplicity because the math is "that good."

Thoughts on usage?

jh

 

[ziegander]

you can get rid of the items but you still need the bonuses is basically what he said.

so instead of handing out a +1 longsword, your character suddenly gets +1 to attack and damage and deals an extra 1d6 damage per crit...

the math is what's hard to change. instead of handing out random bonuses (as mearls suggests) simply reduce monsters' defenses and attack bonuses by 1 pt each at 3rd & every 5 levels thereafter. You may also want to tweak hp values of monsters ever so slighty (I recommened a blanket -5%, and -10% around 24th level).

 

[Emirikol]

you can get rid of the items but you still need the bonuses is basically what he said.

so instead of handing out a +1 longsword, your character suddenly gets +1 to attack and damage and deals an extra 1d6 damage per crit...

the math is what's hard to change. instead of handing out random bonuses (as mearls suggests) simply reduce monsters' defenses and attack bonuses by 1 pt each at 3rd & every 5 levels thereafter. You may also want to tweak hp values of monsters ever so slighty (I recommened a blanket -5%, and -10% around 24th level).

Our 3E games never went past about 14th because they get so "unrealistic" if you're trying to play "lower magic"

I'm thinking 4e would be the same.

jh

 

[ziegander]

I'm not sure I'm following you any longer. This doesn't seem to be a function of magic items anymore, but rather a function of the 4e philosophy that characters should naturally progress from heroic to paragon to epic and become inherently more badass with each tier.

If you're concenred about the game being hostile toward "low magic" do away with paragon paths, do away with epic destinies, do away with magic items and then lower the enemies' defenses, attack bonuses, and hps as I suggested above. Oh... and maybe don't play with divine or arcane power sources. That should be a pretty darned low magic campaign.

 

[Stalker0]

Our 3E games never went past about 14th because they get so "unrealistic" if you're trying to play "lower magic"

I'm thinking 4e would be the same.

jh

The difference in 4e is you don't need all of the special effects that magic provided you in 3e. You don't need to fly, teleport, have resistances to energy types, immunities to death effects, etc etc.

Magic items in 4e provide you some daily powers, but in general they aren't that strong that they would be missed.

However, you do need the static bonuses to Defenses, attack, and damage that magic items provide you. So a DM could just add an extra leveling bonus to all the players stats every X numbers of levels (whenever the party is supposed to get a better class of magic item) and they can go on their way.

 

[firesnakearies]

I'm really not sure that "realistic" and the fantasy genre mesh well.

 

[ziegander]

The only reason I keep suggesting to lower enemies's effectiveness rather than bump the party's effectiveness is that with adding 1/2 level to attacks and defenses already, adding another +1 at 3rd and every 5th level thereafter just seems like overkill. At that point you're thinking... do my stats even matter? I'm 13th level! I get +9 to my attacks and defenses just for being here!

 

[Stalker0]

The only reason I keep suggesting to lower enemies's effectiveness rather than bump the party's effectiveness is that with adding 1/2 level to attacks and defenses already, adding another +1 at 3rd and every 5th level thereafter just seems like overkill. At that point you're thinking... do my stats even matter? I'm 13th level! I get +9 to my attacks and defenses just for being here!

Yes, your stat matter just as much as they would otherwise!!

Because of the way the math works in 4e, you always have roughly the same chance to hit a monster of your level, depending on that monster's type of course. So a +1 to a stat is still a +5% more chance of hitting, and of course another +1 to damage.

Lowering your enemies vs Bumping your party has the same effect mechanically, but different effects based on viewpoint. First of all, I would much rather have my party do a one time change to their character sheets then me having to change monsters in the manual every time I run an encounter.

Second, people like big numbers, it makes them feel cool. Why not give your party the bigger bonuses and let them feel good?

 

[ziegander]

To me getting huge bonuses actually makes me feel less cool (at least in this instance) because I did nothing to earn it. The system is just telling me - hey look at that huge number you've got to hit. You can thank me later.

But yes, this is really just tomaytoes/tomottoes. And it would be more work to edit the monsters, but I prefer the feeling that way than the other.

 

[keterys]

When this topic has come up a few times before, I've suggested:

It might be reasonable to stagger the bonuses. Like At 1/6/11/16/21/26, you deal +Xd6 on crits, +1 attack at 2/7/12/17/22/27, +1 damage at 3, +1 AC at 4, +1 defenses at 5, etc.