Mearls talks about how he hates resistances

[WalterKovacs]

A paragon path to really specialize a specific energy type could be one solution. It forces you to pick only one, and really forces a decision (you have lots of feats, only one paragon path). Perhaps changes immunity to half damage, and reduces vulnerability.

Could be themed that being, for example, a "master" of ice, you not only summon cold, but can withdraw cold, a sort of "anti-cold" for use against those resistant or immune to that energy type, especially if those creatures are elementals of that energy type. An ice wizard may be able to, for example, dominate an ice typed creature in place of dealing damage, as their power and control over ice damage extends to exerting control over ice based creatures as well.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

What's even worse than elemental resistance is immunity to poison damage. It remains the only annoying holdover in regards to "non-living" creatures, poison immunity is quite common as a lot of undead and constructs have it. Resistance to poison damage is rare however, but it's quite a moot point when a lot of things are immune to it.

 

[Leatherhead]

I am a bit concerned that he believes fire mages in the north and ice mages in the desert need to be "explained around."

As someone who has been to a desert and a few places with lots of snow I must say that being extremely cold or hot sucks, and trying to alleviate the extreme temperatures was one of the first things that came to my mind. Ignoring combat, the implied utility of the elements would be so incredibly useful that northerners should have fire magic and desert-dwellers should have ice magic just for everyday survival and practical use anyway.

 

[Orius]

1) Elemental damage is only half a spell's damage. Think of 3e's flame strike. Half is fire damage, half is holy. In the case of wizard spells, half would be just plain magical power. That would make even ice spells have some function against cold resistant creatures.

I think this is a decent solution.

I don't really see anything terribly wrong with resistances. It's fairly easy to work with and remember. I like the idea of elemental specialists eventually gaining mastery over elementals of his own specialty rather than being unable to damage then at all. As for the more general wizard, if he's able to use a typical spread of Fire Ice Lightning spells, then it's less of a problem, just use what more advantageous (though I have no idea how it works now in 4e's system).

If I want to play an ice-themed wizard in a game (or a fire-themed wizard), and I want to use my spells, the issue isn't the resistances. The issue is that the DM will want to use resistant creatures against me so they don't all die off instantly. There's a sort of silent arms race that I see all too often (including in my own play habits) where the DM wants to have a critter or BBEG threaten the party so they pick out ways to resist the players' big attacks, especially powerful spellcasters. This leaves the grinding force of combat to the heavy fighter types who get to wear away at the enemy.

Though really, that sort of DM's "style" isn't going to be stopped by eliminating or changing elemental resistances. That DM would just find another way to hose the mage.

The guy who knows really powerful Ice spells knows most of the wimpy little cool ice spells.

Unintended pun perhaps?

 

[Obryn]

I am a bit concerned that he believes fire mages in the north and ice mages in the desert need to be "explained around."

As someone who has been to a desert and a few places with lots of snow I must say that being extremely cold or hot sucks, and trying to alleviate the extreme temperatures was one of the first things that came to my mind. Ignoring combat, the implied utility of the elements would be so incredibly useful that northerners should have fire magic and desert-dwellers should have ice magic just for everyday survival and practical use anyway.

No, I think that makes a good deal of sense.

However, fantasy fiction from C.S. Lewis and onward - and gaming settings from Greyhawk to the Diamond Throne - have associated cold-related casters with cold climes, and fire-related casters with warm climes. (And poison-related casters with Jungles, etc.)

It's a generic fantasy trope that D&D has accepted wholesale. I don't see anything wrong with wanting your game to go along with it.

-O

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think the whole concept of ice mages from cold places and fire mages from hot places, comes from the concept of magical sympathy. It's best to be in a cold place to master the powers of the cold.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think the whole concept of ice mages from cold places and fire mages from hot places, comes from the concept of magical sympathy. It's best to be in a cold place to master the powers of the cold.

The underlying issue is that D&D didn't also accept the idea behind magical sympathy: the idea that cold magic is easier in cold climates (for instance). The closest the game has ever come were the old planar affects on magic from 2e Planescape, but that was messy and awkward and probably the wrong way to go about doing it.

The idea would be like how the dark side is supposed to be "easier" -- that you can get more power with less effort if you decide to use cold magic in the North, and that you'll get less power with more effort if you go with fire magic. Fire spells take longer (up an action category), do less damage, last shorter times, and get more difficult to perform (can't access your highest level fire powers), while ice spells take shorter (down an action category), do more damage, last longer times, and get easier to perform (you gain ice powers a level above where you are).

You could introduce the idea into D&D pretty well, but it raises some of the specres of 2e planar travel that they got rid of mostly, IMO, for the better.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Edit: Irrelevant.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'd be interested to see D&D give something like that a go, though I suspect that it'd feel too different for a lot of people.

Man, I have toyed with dropping attack rolls from FFZ all together off and on throughout most of its life. Eventually I figured they have their uses, but missing is still much more unusual in FFZ than it ever was in D&D.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I really don't have the same problem with resistances that Mr. Mearls does. I think giving out the occasional resistance is perfectly fine. The bigger problem is when these resistances are imbalanced, such as 4E's previously mentioned widespread poison immunities. Ideally, each element should have about as many monsters with vulnerability as there are monsters with resistance, and every element should have about as many as any other. In this situation, resistance only becomes a problem if you are playing an elemental specialist and are stuck fighting an enemy resistant to your chosen element, but this can be solved by removal of total immunity and special perks (such as Paragon Paths) designed to bypass such limitations.

As for the terrain "issue"... I don't think that is a problem at all. An ice wizard from the frozen north may not be skilled at fighting ice creatures, but often such a character shouldn't need to. Such a character, like the White Witch from the Chronicles of Narnia, is almost always portrayed as someone who either commands the creatures of that element and terrain, or serves someone else who does, not as someone who fights against the creatures of that terrain. Mastering ice magic amidst cold terrain implies that you are in harmony with that terrain, not fighting against it. This calls for the addition of special abilities and powers to an elemental specialist Paragon Path that let them work well alongside creatures of the same element, and certainly doesn't call for a change to the resistance system.

I certainly can understand criticism of 4E's use of elements (mostly because of widespread poison immunity and severe lack of vulnerabilities other than the undead weakness to radiant damage), but I don't think Mr. Mearls is chasing the right target.

As a side-note, my favorite system of elements is the one seen in the Fire Emblem series of videogames, since it tries the most to actually make every element well balanced. The three main "anima" elements are Fire, Wind, and Lightning, with Fire being effective against Wind, Wind against Lightning, and Lightning against Fire. Fire is effective against all beasts, Wind is effective against anything with feathered wings, and Lightning is effective against dragons. Everything has a consistent effectiveness against enemy types that appear fairly often (ideally), and they never deal with resistance at all, actually (other than the global resistance stats that serves as a defense against all kinds of magic, of course).