Mearls: The core of D&D

[Dannyalcatraz]

a +1 weapon was boring

That really depends upon the campaign and the players.

I ran a high-fantasy, low-magic campaign a few years ago in which it took a while to find magical items. There simply were not that many in the world.

So, when the party came across the 1st item- a flaming longsword- when the party was about 4th level- it was a huge deal. That was followed by the first piece of magical armor a few adventures later- a +1 Shield- and a magical +2 dagger. The party Paladin never wore anything better than her masterwork plate (made of starmetal).

And my players were quite happy in that game.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Yep, until 3e with it's super high acs, magical weapons were never necessary. Useful, surely, but hardly required.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That campaign I described WAS 3.5Ed, FWIW.

magical weapons were never necessary

Not strictly true. As pointed out above by others, there were creatures that could only be hit or harmed by magic weapons, even in 1Ed.

So, if you as the DM used them, you had best put magic weapon into the game for your PCs to use, or provide them with some other way to accomplish their goals.

(Of course, if one point of the adventure in question is that they NOT kill creature X, making it unhittable/undamageable would be one way to safeguard it...)

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Yes, but there are other ways. You can capture them, and summoned or charmed creatures can harm them. Perhaps these are not the easiest of ways, but if we wanted the easy way out, we wouldn't be adventurers.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Not strictly true. As pointed out above by others, there were creatures that could only be hit or harmed by magic weapons, even in 1Ed.

So, if you as the DM used them, you had best put magic weapon into the game for your PCs to use, or provide them with some other way to accomplish their goals.

(Of course, if one point of the adventure in question is that they NOT kill creature X, making it unhittable/undamageable would be one way to safeguard it...)

According the the DMG, p. 75, a creature of 4+1 HD or more can affect a creature which normally needs +1 or better weapons to hit. A creature with 6+2 HD or more can affect a creature which normally needs +2 or better weapons to hit. Etc.

This does not apply to characters, but it is certainly possible for characters to gain control of creatures to which it does apply.

So, clever players may well defeat these creatures, by using other creatures and/or magic. Of course, it is also possible to make use of spells like spiritual hammer (cleric 2), shillelagh (druid 1), or enchanted weapon (magic-user 4). Mind you, it is much better to have a divine caster here than a magic-user!


RC

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

According the the DMG, p. 75, a creature of 4+1 HD or more can affect a creature which normally needs +1 or better weapons to hit. A creature with 6+2 HD or more can affect a creature which normally needs +2 or better weapons to hit. Etc.

Right, but as I recall- not having my DMG in front of me at the mo- that only deals with the basic "+1 or better to hit" issue, not things like incorporeality.

 

[Nagol]

Right, but as I recall- not having my DMG in front of me at the mo- that only deals with the basic "+1 or better to hit" issue, not things like incorporeality.

It does since there is no such thing as incorporeality in 1e. Creatures that 3e would consider incorporeal like the Groaning Spirit and Spectre require +1 or better weapons to hit. There are no other modifiers. So an ogre can engage either in combat directly.

The Ghost is a bit of an exception since it exists on the ethereal plane and can be seen by and affect the Material Plane. Fighting one is easiest if you shift the ethereal plane, but if it is trying to attack you directly, it can be hit by silver (50% damage) or magical weaponry (full damage). So an ogre can fight back if a ghost attacks it too.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But he can't fight back well without magical weaponry.

 

[Nagol]

But he can't fight back well without magical weaponry.

The ogre would fight as well as the ogre could fight if the ogre fought a creature requiring +1 or better weapons to hit.

So the same base chance to strike and the same base damage as if the other creature did not have those defenses. Since the ogre is 4 + 1 HD its attacks do full damage to the ghost, groaning spirit, and spectre.

Certainly getting its hands on a magic weapon increases its combat capability a little from the increase chance to strike and extra pip of damage, but compare to the poor 5th level Fighter for whom the magic item is a binary switch can't affect/can affect.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Not so- a ghost cannot be struck by the ogre unless it becomes semi-material to use it's touch attack*. Meanwhile, the ghost could simply magic jar the ogre while fully ethereal. Assuming, of course, the ogre is young enough or rolls well enough to avoid the aging & fear effect the creature induces by it's mere appearance.

And if the magic jar is destroyed while the ghost is in command of the body, the ogre dies.

But all of this is *ahem* immaterial to the point being made. As was pointed out, the HD subbing for magic weapons usage doesn't apply to PCs at all. If you are a PC without magic weapons encountering something only hit by magic weapons, your best chance of survival is running.


* BTW, the ghost is described as being "non-corporeal (ethereal)"- so the concept of incorporeal beings is present even in 1Ed, though it's mechanics are slightly different.