Melee and Close Burst

[Simar]

As I assume it, melee attack are different of close burst 1;

power attack does not work on close burst 1

Power Attack
Prerequisite: Str 15
Benefit: When making a melee attack, you can
take a –2 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits,
you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll (or a +3 bonus​

to the damage roll with a two-handed weapon)...


Bloodclaw weapon does not work on close burst 1

Power (At-Will): Free Action. Use this power before
making a melee attack on your turn. You take damage
up to a maximum of the weapon’s enhancement bonus​

(a +3 weapon deals up to 3 damage to its wielder).

IronArmband of power work on close burst 1 because rules are speaking about melee damage​

Item Slot: Arms​

Property: Gain a +2 item bonus to melee damage rolls.

Somebody can it say to me if I am right?​

 

[Diirk]

Yes, yes and no.

Iron Armbands of Power give a bonus to melee damage rolls... however if you're using a close burst, you aren't making a melee damage roll. You're making a close burst damage roll.

 

[Oompa]

Yes, yes and no.

Iron Armbands of Power give a bonus to melee damage rolls... however if you're using a close burst, you aren't making a melee damage roll. You're making a close burst damage roll.

And what if you have a power that is a close burst using a melee weapon? Arent you dealing melee damage than?

I dont have my books at hand so i could be wrong..

 

[Nichwee]

The issue here is that melee damage can be used in the vanacular - i.e I hit with a weapon in melee = melee damage - or in a rules keyword context - i.e. I hit with a Melee power = melee damage.

Using a melee weapon is kinda out as casters can use daggers, swords, etc as implements (but are still using a melee weapon), but can't be considered melee damaging - unless the power indicates that it is Melee attacking.

The consistant way to define things is by the keywords. So if the range of the power = Melee, it is melee damage. Otherwise it is not. Else you get into issues of whether a Ranged power is "ranged damage" if you do it from adjacent to someone. If we take this approach IAoP do not work on Close Burst powers.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

And what if you have a power that is a close burst using a melee weapon? Arent you dealing melee damage than?

I dont have my books at hand so i could be wrong..

Its a bit ambiguous because you can't find a precise definition of "melee damage" since it could mean "damage done with a melee weapon" or "damage done with a melee power". General consensus seems to be that the later is the proper interpretation and you only get to add IAoP damage bonus with melee powers. It is an arguable point though.

 

[Nichwee]

Another reason to limit melee damage to Melee powers:

Swordmage Lvl 1 At-Will Sword Burst.
Close Burst 1
All Enemies in Burst
1d6 + Int Mod Force Damage

Is this a "conjure force which blasts out at enemies" or "turn your sword to force (lightsaber style) and hit each enemy"?
One would count as 'magic burst damage' and the other as 'melee damage'. So the decision has to be based on something defined by the power, not the fluff/skinning - hence stick to melee damage = damage from Melee powers.

 

[DracoSuave]

It's not at -all- ambiguous. Descriptors of damage, in -every single case- default to the power used to deal that damage. Melee weapon as a designator has nothing to do with the damage it deals. -Everything- looks at the power.

'But what about weapon damage?'

Look at the power. [W] means weapon damage.

'But what about melee damage?'

Look at the power. Melee damage is damage from a melee power. The keyword 'Weapon' is irrelevant to this. Implement powers that are Melee? Also melee damage.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Look at the power. Melee damage is damage from a melee power. The keyword 'Weapon' is irrelevant to this. Implement powers that are Melee? Also melee damage.

I agree. This one came up briefly in our game but it took about 3 seconds for our entire group to agree that if a power doesn't say melee then it isn't melee damage.

It's the reason my Warden wasn't sure he wanted Hammer Rhythm since he has mostly close burst powers.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

One exceptional example that I think sheds additional light on the issue is Feral Armor, which has this Encounter Power:

Close burst 1; targets enemies; make a basic melee attack using the claw attack granted by this armor against each enemy in burst.

The area is Close burst 1, but the Attack is explicitly a melee attack. I expect they will be equally explicit in any other cases that break the mold.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Look at the power. [W] means weapon damage.

So are you saying that an Ironskin Belt (Gain resist 5 to all weapon damage until the end of your next turn) won't be of any help against Furious Smash, the secondary attack from All Bets Are Off, or the damage on a miss from Hammer Rhythm?

Furious Smash and ABAO both have the [Weapon] keyword. Hammer Rhythm modifies a power that has the [Weapon] keyword, and contains a note that makes an exception to the normal rules for weapon damage.

My understanding is that [W] represents weapon damage dice; damage can still be weapon damage even if no weapon damage dice are used, by virtue of the [Weapon] keyword.

-Hyp.