Melee classed small Raced characters?

[Artoomis]

Halfling paladin: TWF, Divine Might. Why a lance?

It's all about style, man!!

What is cooler than zipping around the battlefield on your flying dog charging at folks with your lance. Too cool!

Sure, there's a downside. But that's the price of extreme coolness.

 

[CrimsonTemplar]

This thread has gotten me thinking. Do you consider a Tiny character race to be viable?

It would depend on the campaign setting. It might be a fun twist to play a campaign, or even a one-shot, where you're all wee folk dealing with problems uniquely their own. A Pixie Paladin on a Celestial Housecat or a Brownie Barbarian could be interesting.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

As a full-time spellcaster, yes. (Assuming no ECL). As a melee character, no.

This thread has gotten me thinking. Do you consider a Tiny character race to be viable?


Aaron

 

[Voadam]

As a full-time spellcaster, yes. (Assuming no ECL). As a melee character, no.

Don't forget the melee sneak attack rogue, the AC and attack bonuses aid while the strength loss is negligible.

 

[Ferret]

I don't use those rules in 3.5, if I want a halfling wanted small shortswords they could have them forged.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A Pixie Paladin on a Celestial Housecat or a Brownie Barbarian could be interesting.

Pixies are size Small, and Housecats are size Tiny.

You'd be better off playing a Housecat Paladin on a Celestial Pixie.

The housecat hits! The housecat misses. The housecat bites!

You die...

-- MORE --

-Hyp.

 

[Gyoza Dog]

I think a lot of small character melee builds have been damaged indirectly by a combination of small changes.

Due to strength penalties a disproportionate number of small characters weapon finesse their weapons. To achieve high damage they principly used either power attack or sneak attack.

Power attack is now impossible with most finesseable weapons and boosts the strength based builds that they're competing against even more.

Getting sneak attacks is harder in 3.5. Hiding almost always requires shadows now but you can't sneak attack someone in shadows due to concealment. Flanking is more difficult because the mobility of small characters is lower due to the nerfing of movement enhancers like boots of springing and striding.

A small character can defdinately do a strength based build but they'll do 3 or so less damage than their big friends each hit. And they're less effective using every special combat move (trip, disarm etc.)

To hit: +1 size bonus - 1 strength penalty = 0
Damage: -1.5 strength penalty (2-handed) -1.5 average weapon damage (2d6 vs. d10 or 2d4 vs. d6) = -3

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

That doesn't work for tiny creatures since they have no reach, don't threaten, and therefore can't flank. They also provoke an AoO when they move into their opponent's square (as they have to) in order to attack.

It would only become viable with Improved Invisibility or Blink but relying on those to be a viable character eliminatest the first six levels of gameplay (and makes things difficult for another two or three after that--an 8th level wizard doesn't have a ton of 4th level spells and probably doesn't want to use all of them to make the rogue playable). It would also make the character much more vulnerable to being shut down (Pit fiends, etc have True Seeing always active and then there's See Invisible, Invisibility Purge, Lanterns of Revealing, fortification armor, True Seeing spells, anti-magic fields, Blindfight, and Uncanny Dodge (I--II makes flanking worthless too) etc) all of which would make the character completely unable to perform his usual role while most of them only make the ordinary melee rogue go back to relying on flanking for sneak attacks.

Don't forget the melee sneak attack rogue, the AC and attack bonuses aid while the strength loss is negligible.

 

[Darklone]

By the core rules small characters are weaker in melee... but several dragons featured swarming rules and special feats for smaller chars to fight against large or medium creatures.

AU has such a feat too IIRC.

 

[Voadam]

That doesn't work for tiny creatures since they have no reach, don't threaten, and therefore can't flank. They also provoke an AoO when they move into their opponent's square (as they have to) in order to attack.

It would only become viable with Improved Invisibility or Blink but relying on those to be a viable character eliminatest the first six levels of gameplay (and makes things difficult for another two or three after that--an 8th level wizard doesn't have a ton of 4th level spells and probably doesn't want to use all of them to make the rogue playable). It would also make the character much more vulnerable to being shut down (Pit fiends, etc have True Seeing always active and then there's See Invisible, Invisibility Purge, Lanterns of Revealing, fortification armor, True Seeing spells, anti-magic fields, Blindfight, and Uncanny Dodge (I--II makes flanking worthless too) etc) all of which would make the character completely unable to perform his usual role while most of them only make the ordinary melee rogue go back to relying on flanking for sneak attacks.

I haven't looked up tiny characters in 3.5 yet, what happens if they have a tiny reach weapon?

I was thinking specifically of the Mythic Races Fairy which is tiney and has an innate invisibility and flying ability and were generally considered good rogues.