Melee Touch Attack

[zlorf]

When you make a melee touch attack, ie to start a grapple, do you get to use all your
weapon bonus and feats etc on the attack?

I think you do but to me it doesnt make a great deal of sense? I mean how does one determine if your strike is going to touch someone or bypass their armour. I do a melee touch
attack and roll a 19, hey that attack would have hit your normal ac, not just your touch ac.

Maybe it should be BAB+Str vs defenders touch.

Cheers
Z

 

[MarkB]

When you make a melee touch attack, ie to start a grapple, do you get to use all your
weapon bonus and feats etc on the attack?

No. A melee touch attack is simply BAB + Strength modifier.

 

[Nadaka]

depends... are you making the touch attack with the weapon? in that case yes, all the weapon specific modifiers apply. Though touch attacks are rarely made with weapons. Most of them are made unarmed or with spells.

 

[Infiniti2000]

When you make a melee touch attack, ie to start a grapple, do you get to use all your weapon bonus and feats etc on the attack?

You use all your weapon bonus and weapon feats when you attack with the given weapon.

I think you do but to me it doesnt make a great deal of sense?

I don't understand why you think it doesn't make sense. If you take weapon focus in a weapon, why wouldn't you apply that focus when attacking with that weapon? It makes no sense to not apply it.

I mean how does one determine if your strike is going to touch someone or bypass their armour.

This question to me shows a misunderstanding somewhere. A touch attack, by definition, bypasses their armor (excluding special cases like incorporeal touch attacks vs. mage armor, etc.).

 

[werk]

Sounds to me like that OP thinks that melee touch attacks are too easy when they include the weapon modifiers, specifically WRT grapple step 2.

Should step 2 allow use of a weapon, since it is described as a grab? (It does not call for a grapple check, which would limit it to BAB+Str+size mods) How do you grab someone with a a light mace?

 

[Dracorat]

Weapon Focus [General]

Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites

Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit

You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special

You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

A fighter may select Weapon Focus as one of his fighter bonus feats. He must have Weapon Focus with a weapon to gain the Weapon Specialization feat for that weapon.

A melee touch attack is an unarmed strike. A grapple attempt (like if you made the touch attack successfully) is its own weapon focus.

Also, note that you must be proficient with the unarmed strike to take a weapon focus in it.

 

[ValhallaGH]

1) Melee touch attacks can be done with many weapons. Usually the weapon is an unarmed strike (a simple weapon that all core classes except the Druid and Wizard are proficient with).

2) If you have Weapon Focus or Enhancement Bonuses with/on the weapon used for the touch attack, then those apply to the touch attack.

3) You declare a touch attack before you roll it. If it succeeds then you touch the target. It doesn't matter if you succeed by 0 or by 3,000,000,000,000 (three trillion), success is success.

That should answer all of the OPs questions.

 

[Hypersmurf]

1) Melee touch attacks can be done with many weapons. Usually the weapon is an unarmed strike (a simple weapon that all core classes except the Druid and Wizard are proficient with).

Most touch spells can be delivered with an unarmed strike, but generally aren't... because then you need to make a normal attack roll, not a touch attack roll.

(The appropriate Focus feat for a touch spell delivered normally is Weapon Focus: Touch Spell, from Complete Arcane.)

A Trip uses a melee touch, either with a trip-capable weapon, or if your weapon is not trip-capable, as an unarmed melee touch attack. Note that unarmed strike is not designated as a trip-capable weapon; I'd distinguish between "unarmed melee touch attack" and "melee touch attack with an unarmed strike".

Grapple uses a melee touch attack, but as noted above, the appropriate Focus feat is Weapon Focus: Grapple.

I haven't come across all that many melee touch attacks that are specifically unarmed strike. There's a Psionic feat that allows it, but there's another one that allows it with any melee weapon... similar, in a way, to the Wraithstrike spell.

-Hyp.

 

[zlorf]

Melee Touch attack and grapple

My problem is with the logic of the whole touch someone with a weapon to initiate a grapple.

The PHB says P156 PHB - Step 2: Grab " You make a melee touch attack to grab the target...". Their arn't that many weapons that "grab", so why should you use all you
weapon bonus for a melee touch attack.

If i had a 15ft reach weapon, in theory i could do a melee touch attack with that and start a grapple...i see nothing about having to adjacent to your target.

And why have a AoO on someone who is making a melee touch, its even easier that a normal attack, my only explaination is that you get it because when you do your melee
touch attack you should be using your hand instead of a weapon.

Z

Z

You use all your weapon bonus and weapon feats when you attack with the given weapon.

I don't understand why you think it doesn't make sense. If you take weapon focus in a weapon, why wouldn't you apply that focus when attacking with that weapon? It makes no sense to not apply it.

This question to me shows a misunderstanding somewhere. A touch attack, by definition, bypasses their armor (excluding special cases like incorporeal touch attacks vs. mage armor, etc.).

 

[zlorf]

Sounds to me like that OP thinks that melee touch attacks are too easy when they include the weapon modifiers, specifically WRT grapple step 2.

Spot on

Should step 2 allow use of a weapon, since it is described as a grab? (It does not call for a grapple check, which would limit it to BAB+Str+size mods) How do you grab someone with a a light mace?

I like the way you think, i repeat your sentiments in a previous reply.

Z