Mental stability and roleplaying games

[WizarDru]

My supposition is based on the emergence of prevalence in "PKing" or "Player Killing" that became a household word when the MMORPG explosion happened in 1999-2000. Gaming remotely is, ultimately still anonymous, and does not foster social contact in the same way that a local gaming group would.

Thoughts on this?

Partly agree and partly disagree. The problem with most MMORPGs, IMHO, is that while they CAN foster such relationships, they often DON'T. After the MMORPG explosion calmed down some, I found many folks who would only play MMORPGs with folks they knew in real life. Why? Because the first generation of MMORPGs hadn't yet come to grips with the 'jerk' factor. The second generation addresses it, but I consider "City of Heroes" to be the first truly 3rd-gen MMORPG, and it effectively handles such problems very well. It will be interesting to see how World of Warcraft, D&D online and Middle Earth Online handle them.

Several of my players are members of guilds, superhero teams and so forth. I was once amongst their number, and only one of my players has never been so at one point or another. The issue is that MMORPGs needs must cater to so many different play styles, they often reduce to numerical exercises, 'Fed-Ex' quests and 'Get the foozles in this order' quests. Not the stuff of interactive legends. I would argue that the previous and current crop of MMORPGs really aren't the same level of interactiveness or rewards that a PnP game is, because by necessity, they can't be.

On the other hand, when you have to spend 12 hours completing a quest with some folks (sometimes repeatedly for weeks), you tend to get as well acquainted as any message board, at the very least. When I was playing Asheron's Call, we became very friendly with some the members of our alleigence tree, and had quite the esprit d'corps...as far as that went. I know that my EQ playing friends (who have all pretty much moved on to City of Heroes at this point) all got into some very political situations amongst their guild, had their own forum and mailing list, and certainly had some social relationships that would end up carrying over past the game itself. This internet thing is wacky, that I can be carrying on daily gaming conversations with folks I've never met.

I wouldn't say that it's anonymous, so much as different. The dynamic is not the same, because online personas can sometimes be different, or perceived as different. However, I've also found that folks I liked online tend to be folks I liked in person, so what does that tell you?

 

[Torm]

It is indeed her immediate family which has given her these ideas, especially due to a close relative in his early twenties, who lost touch with reality and "became" his RPG character.

If he has done this, then from my experience, they need to take a close look at what's been going on around him leading up to this, and be prepared to draw uncomfortable conclusions - and not about D&D.

 

[Torm]

Gaming remotely is, ultimately still anonymous, and does not foster social contact in the same way that a local gaming group would.

Thoughts on this?

From everything I've seen in the news over the years, I would tend to think online RPGs are more of a physical threat to the player than a mental one - in the form of "forgetting" to eat, sleep, or go to the restroom, and in the consumption of large (even to a pen-and-paper gamer ) amounts of caffeine to achieve that. There is one case I'm familiar with of an online gamer committing suicide after losing his character, but I tend to think that was a case of his being estranged in the first place, combined with the sort of extreme frustration someone would feel losing that much time and money doing anything for naught.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I've known my share of unbalanced folks in my life, and some of them indeed have trouble distinguishing the real from the imagined. I've gamed with a couple of these individuals, and it's pretty clear (to me, anyway) that D&D was not the cause of their problems, but didn't do anything to help them, either. Can we blame D&D (or any RPG for that matter) for making their problems worse? I don't think so. These people are going to look for some sort of outlet that they can latch onto that will enable them to further separate themselves from "the world at large", be it RPG's, television shows, religion, or heavy metal music (for examples). These things cannot be blamed for causing their issues, but the ones at fault are friends and family who look for any place besides the obvious on which to lay the blame.

We live in a culture where accountability has taken second place to blame and litigation. No one wants to take the responsibility for their own actions, and seek to find something else to blame it on. A gamer who has some emotional, social or even mental disorders might indeed have a hard time separating him or herself from her character, but that person's family will never look at themselves to see what might be the real reason (abuse, lack of discipline, lack of attention, etc.) The mantra "we just didn't know" has become the standard answer when someone's problems get out of control.

Anyway...rant ends in 3...2..1

 

[Mark Chance]

Gaming remotely is, ultimately still anonymous, and does not foster social contact in the same way that a local gaming group would.

Thoughts on this?

I tend to agree, but that is based on what is probably just a generalization. I used to play EverQuest on-line quite a bit, but almost always because a very close friend of mine also played. In game, our characters were brothers: same race, same surname, et cetera. Since Fred lived clear on the other side of town from me (and Houston is a big town), EQ was a way for Fred and me to game and socialize together.

When Fred died last summer, I quit playing EQ entirely. I just didn't see the point in it. I game to socialize. That included EQ.

Now maybe many or even most people playing EQ and other similar games actually have relationships with those they computer game with. I don't know.

Of course, one could also ask to what extent message board conversations pose the same issues.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

My wife and I had an encounter with a couple who are good friends of ours and were concerned about our playing those games. The two of them are devout Christians. My wife and I are not-quite-so-devout Catholics. They asked us if we were concerned about the effects of playing these games. We took some time to explain that it is just a game, a form of escapism at times, but mostly an excuse for social interaction with friends. We explained to them that the stories they hear are the exception and not the rule, and are often exaggerated. There are some few people out there that may take the game too seriously, or think they are their character, but it not the game that causes it, instead it is a medium for them to reflect their own troubles.

I'm not sure if we really changed their minds about RPGs as a whole, but I know they are no longer concerned for us.

 

[Henry]

In the responses to my question about Online gaming so far, the common thread I've seen is that in the successful cases, the people in question KNEW each other as people at some point, or became acquainted outside the confines of the game, and that is I think a vital point. Contact is about humanization, and about being seen as "human" to others. Even a victim of suicide, while "seeing" other people, still feels ultimately a victim of alienation. You can see a WORLD full of people, and still not connect with them. However, sharing in an activity, being a two-way street, requires that each acknowledges the other, and this can be VERY difficult when you aren't seeing the other person.

Speaking to online community, my favorite part of conventions and gamedays is not the gaming itself - it is the networking, the connecting names to faces, and seeing in person that Chuck is a vegetarian, or Jane has 2 kids and a Husband named Tom, etc. etc. I get to know some people online for years, and then I still don't know a darned thing about them. It's establishing human contact that ultimately makes a person "real" to someone else.

 

[Bards R Us]

Agemegos: An early happy birthday from someone who is only a few months behind you in age.



I think being socially engaged is IMPORTANT in combating feelings of despair, loneliness and depression. It is very easy to feel isolated in today's busy high tech society. We can chose to isolate ourselves from the world, or to participate in it. I think the latter is generally healthier and leads to a more fulfilling life -- the exact opposite of what was portrayed on a TV show that should at least strive for mediocrity.

Totally agree on this. I used to be like that, I was spending WAY too much in front of the computer playing games and stuff. Going out and participating in a face-to-face RPG group has been healthier outlet for me for social interaction than staring at a faceless monitor or TV screen playing games (although I still do play video games).

 

[Dogbrain]

Contact is about humanization, and about being seen as "human" to others.

Recommended reading in continuation of this idea: I and thou (Ich und du) by Franz Buber.

 

[William Ronald]

Recommended reading in continuation of this idea: I and thou (Ich und du) by Franz Buber.

You mean Martin Buber. I plan to read an English translation by Walter Kaufmann a little later this summer.