Mental stat bonuses are more powerful than strength bonuses.

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

No, I'm saying that the high INT makes the DC all but impossible to make at those high levels, resulting in much more damage (or more likely save-or-die results ending in death). Whereas the extra damage from a higher strength at those levels isn't nearly as significant.

Well, if you're talking about an Int that high, then we should likewise be talking about Strength scores that are that high.

In which case, our hypothetical warrior will be dealing enough damage on each swing to force a massive damage save.

Meaning that, for every "save or die" spell the Wizard's chucking around, the Fighter is doing gross amounts of actual HP damage with a "save or die" component.

 

[fafhrd]

Find a better example, then. A Meteor Swarm can affect, what, 100 dice rolls with a single casting? And that's probably the highest you'll ever get. Meteor Swarm is also a poster-boy for "Underpowered High Level Spells."

Yeah, I think meteor swarm will do nicely. How many rolls can a fighter influence with a standard action?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Also, I just can't believe that an Int penalty is not significant for *any* character. If it doesn't matter, than you or your DM isn't using skills enough in the campaign. Charisma penalties are less significant, but can be disastrous if you have significant social interaction. Wisdom penalties, of course, are an open invitation to charm person and the like.

Actually, this argument strongly reinforces my own.

If Int is not a practical dump stat for even a Fighter, then a Fighter has only one potential dump stat -- Cha, while a Wizard still has three or four places he can potentially hide a weak stat. The result is that Wizards have a easier time minimizing the effect of penalties.

Int is not necessarily more or less powerful than Str, it is just that stat penalties are a poor mechanic for balancing an Int bonus (or any other spellcasting stat).

A PC with just two good stats and four lousy stats is still a viable adventuring character as a Wizard (and even Cleric, Druid, Sorceror to a lesser extent). This just does not work so well for characters that depend on Str. According to CZ, you really need four or five decent stats to be a Fighter so stat penalties are more problematic.

 

[Shieldhaven]

I think that the balance issue at stake that dictates that none of the core races should have bonuses to Int, Wis, or Cha is substantially different.

A dwarven fighter can look to his Con and say, "Yes, I may take a hit to Cha, but it's more than made up for by my remarkable toughness and resilience."

An elven fighter can look to his Dex and say, "Yes, I may take a hit to Con (okay, ouch!) but it's more than made up for by my remarkable aim and ability to avoid attack rolls of all kinds - and avoiding those nasty ranged touch attack, no saving throw spells sure is important at any point in my career."

A half-orc fighter can look to his Str and say, "Yes, I may take a hit to Int and Cha, and have very few other racial advantages besides, but it's more than made up for by the fact that I really can beat anything in the world into the dirt, because I hit more often and for more damage. Go me."

My point is that fighters can be built around any of those physical stats. Weapon Finesse helps with that. Archery helps even more.

But. (Bear with me here.)

It's true that you'd have to be kind of masochistic to play a half-orc wizard or sorcerer, or a dwarven sorcerer. But no race stands up and shouts, Look, I am without dispute the best wizard race in the game, or the best cleric race in the game, or the best sorcerer race in the game. A sorcerer with five 10's and an 20 in his stat block will still be a pretty impressive sorcerer. One with some problems, but good luck resisting his spells or running him out of spell slots. It's less true for a cleric, because in general clerics have to cover some measure of melee combat as well as casting, but I don't think that diminishes the cleric's need for wisdom in preference to all other stats.

I really hope this makes some sense. I ramble.