mercantile trade - help needed

[Beholder Bob]

I'm looking for a system for mercantile trade. Don't ask. Ok, I'll tell anyways - my players suffer through my low magic, cash poor world, and have decided to try their hand at profiting on their empty ship hold.

Any suggested mechanics?

I'm looking for something that gives a range of cost vs profit. Say, spend 1000 gp on high risk commodity, rush to market and check to see if you get 1 sp to the gp, or 1 pp to the gp. That sort of thing.

As an aside, they will be very upset when they discover that they only make haggle rates until they establish a merchant house - or a contract with one (they plan on buying stuff and just showing up at port).

As an aside - my great fear now 'Enter a dungeon? Hell no! We have to get these textiles to markets before our competitors do!'

BB

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Trading.. and Merchants

A couple ways to handle this.. depending on what your players are looking for and what you are willing to do.

One way would be to use Profession: Merchant and Profession: Sailor, make a couple rolls, consult a chart, and say "you brought X amount of silk in and were able to make Y gp in profit. A very simple chart with goods needed with modifiers would suffice. This is what it looks like you are asking for.

The other way is to turn this choice into adventure hooks. Make the ports your dungeons and run entire adventures that consist of moving goods from point A to point B. Port-side they will have to deal with Encounters of: Port Authority, Taxes, and Guildhouses.. and possibly become embroiled in a guild-war {easy for a freelance ship..} Out of port, the Encounters could be Pirates or Warships.
Go into detail in the business, Gather Info to find a source, Knowledge: Mercantile to know what would gain the best return where, Diplomancy to haggle to buy, etc... Fudge the numbers so they can usually get a profit, enough to sponsor the next shipload. Loets of work for both the characters and for the DM.

Adventure plots abound. Imagine them sailing up to Shylock Harbor to drop off a fresh cargo load of Silk just in time to blockaded because the local lord told the Empire off...
Or finding a reliable source for goods out of the Ranken harbor.. only to find out halfway through a trip that the barrels of goods are not what they seem.. their source is a Vampire's cohort and the barrels contain hungry fledgling vampires, and one barrel has been opened...

Plenty of fun

 

[Beholder Bob]

I was initially imagining a group of 4 types of products:
raw essential: raw salt, metal ore, unworked wool, etc
worked essential: cured timber, refined metals, spices, purified salt
low risk commodity: weapons, fur, bolts of cloth, tun of ale, cut gemstone, jewelry
high risk commodity: artwork, product never seen at market, unique clothing and furniture

raw essentials are low cost, low profit - but steady and reliable unless a glut occurs

worked essentials are more expensive, moderate profit - prone to gluts as well

low risk - material easily sold at market, multiple folks buying the same thing, items people would conceivably stock up on. easy to move. tend to cost a fair amount, sell for a moderate amount - not prone to glut, but is prone to local competition more then the essentials.

high risk - materials people may not want. Items that do not sell quickly and require a high need. artwork either catches on or it doesn't. fashion designs popular or worthless. example - show up with 2000 gp of stringed instruments: if their is a need, they are incredibly valuable (expensive items not made quickly), but if no particular need you end up selling at a loss to merchants who leave them on a shelf to collect dust until folks do want them.

I'm looking for a check someone could make, say roll 3d8 for need, with a table for each of the product types. Allow a synergy bonus to the roll for 5+ ranks merchant. Allow a chance to gather info giving a bonus if delivery on time. low risk items vary, say from 80% to 120%, while high risk ranges from 20% - 250%. The % refers to price gained vs initial amount spent.

Also, penalty and bonus for different ports for different products - the city of sorcery sells potions 10% cheaper in bulk, but is a poor place to sell them, while the Elven city is a good place to unload metals, but poor place to sell woods.

Eh, something like that.

BB

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Good start...

So, mechanically:
Group the goods by type, each type giving a certain modifier to various checks.
Certain ports will be give modifiers based on current need. As this can change a check by the characters will be needed to decide where to go

The main characteristics of a cargo load are:
Type of Good, Handling cost, and Value
{Handling cost for those items that require paying folks to help load/unload due to size or whatever}

Freelance:
Buying or selling Cargo would take a couple steps:
Identify the need: Gather Info and Knowledge: X checks
Find a supplier/buyer: Gather Info Check
{failed checks still can find a buyer.. just it costs the party more}
Finesse the supplier/buyer: Diplomancy check
{ can cause price changes}
Negotiate the price: Proffession: Merchant
Offer/Counter Offer: sets the max/min prices
Diplomancy checks, each success moves the opponents price closer by the amount the DC was beat in gold
{or time 10 in gold... the idea is to make it a haggle that the skilled will win more than the lucky}

Other costs that may be negotiated/accounted for:
Handling Costs, Taxes, Guild Dues,...

Contracted/Guild: The PC would skip most of this, instead receving orders to move from here to there with this type of Goods. The party would be paid on commision but would not have to do the 'dirty' work.
This is easier in that the party picks up the goods and deleivers them. To determine the amount the party receives in commision, roll a check as follows:

Base check:
raw essential: 2D4
worked essential: 2D6
low risk commodity: 2D8
high risk commodity: 4D8
Modifiers:
Minor Glut: -2
Major Glut: -4
Guild War: -10
Poor relations: -2 {the Guild man representing them has poor diplomatic skills }
Strong relations: +2
elevated demand: +2
High demand: +4
Mulitply the result by 10. This would be the price for one 'unit' of the goods. A 'unit' could be about half a cart-load. A fully loaded ship would be able to carry enough to make even raw essentials worthwhile.


This is all basicall off the cuff.. ..what do you think?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

eh. quick add.

One other thing to factor in is time..

If they ship out of port X with some goods bound for Port Y, the market may shift before they get there. As such, I would prefer to see both ends of the deal kept seperate.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Hmmm - let me mull this over / run the numbers...

BB

 

[Beholder Bob]

Cargo units: 5’ cu
Assume a wagon can carry 5 units, while a pack horse can carry 1.

Example table

Cargo………Wt……….Cost…….Type
Silk…………50………..400……..W
Swords..……85……....1000……..W
Wool……….10…………10……..W
Iron Ore…..400…………40……..B
Orc Art…….40…………40……..R

Handling cost is derived from weight per unit
Types are: Base, Work, Risk

Purchasing product is for 110% cost – 1% per point made in merchant skill check (take 10 = 100%). If you lack the skill, you pay 120%
You gain a +2 synergy bonus for gather info, and +2 synergy bonus with 5+ ranks in local culture.

Selling products: roll 3d8, modify for port. PCs do not get to alter this roll – this is the market they sail/drive/ride to. They can do a Gather Info check DC 20, +1 DC per day of travel between, to identify what a destinations value is at the time. If made, go ahead and re-roll for when they arrive, but adjust the original value up or down 1 step towards the 2nd rolls result per day spent traveling to that port. For example, after some checking, it is determined that port B has a 22 for purchase of salt. 5 days from the merchant’s location, he immediately sets off. Upon arrival, the DM rolls and gets a 7. So adjust the price down 5 steps (5 days time) from the base of 22 to reflect the downward trend, getting a 17, still profitable, just not nearly as great as expected.

If you do not have Merchant profession, or at least one working for you, take a -4 penalty to the roll (not finding the proper market, poor haggling)

If you have 5+ ranks in a culture you sell at, gain a +1 bonus to the roll.

Optionally, you could allow a Diplomacy check, DC 25, to alter the price up 1 step, though failure by 5+ drops it 1 step instead (you delayed selling hoping to get a better price, and instead sell it for less then you initially wished.

A 4 could be a sever glut, while a 25 is a critical shortage!

……….B…….W……R
>3..…..60…….40…....0
3……..65……50…...5
4……..65……50…...5
5……..70……60…...5
6……..70……60…...10
7……..75……70…...20
8……..80……70…...30
9……..85……80…...40
10…....90…….80…...50
11…...100……90…...60
12…...100…..100…...70
13…...100…..100…..80
14…...100..…100…...85
15…....100….110…...90
16…....105….115…...100
17…....110….120…...110
18…....115….125…...125
19…....120….130…...150
20…....125….135…...175
21…....130….140…...200
22…....135….145…...250
23…....140….150…...300
24…....145….160…...350
<24.....150….170…...400

Costs to be dealt with:
Travel cost
Food costs
Guards/workers

Upon arrival, you can store goods to await a better day…
Taxes
Guild dues

Do these numbers look reasonable? What do you think?

BB

 

[Beholder Bob]

Ok, change to the modifier from gather info,

Base material price drops 1 step per week

Worked price drops 1 step per day

Risk product drops 2 steps per day

So: you hear that weapons are selling at 140% (a 21 for worked product) at a city 7 days away, so you purchase and rush to the city to sell your wares.

The dm rolls a 12 for the value. Each day spent traveling drops the value, from the core roll of 21, down to 12, by 1 point. When the merchant arrives, the weapons are selling for 21-7 = 14, or 100% purchase price. The merchant breaks even - or would if not for travel costs. Now, a good merchant could have gotten a better price, say 10 stat, 8 ranks, and 5+ ranks in gather info, he'd have a +10 roll, or with a roll of 10, purchase said weapons for 110-20=90% their value. So, this merchant makes 10% profit (buy 1000 gp worth of weapons for 900 gp, sell them for 1000 gp, or 100 gp profit for 7 days travel).

So: you hear copper ore is in high demand, selling for 130% its base price. After 7 days travel to sell the copper, it sells for: 7 days = 1 price step down for base product, or 125% profit. Assuming you purchased the copper at the same 10% discount as shown above, you buy 1000 gp of copper for 900, sell it for 1250, so profit 350 gp.

base product will be low value for bulky/heavy goods - flower, ore, etc - but since almost always in need and commonly stockpiled, the price is very stable.

worked goods are decent price per lb, but have more frequent fluctuations - an order for weapons for the kings guard skyrockets the price, while a dearth of weapons floods the market after a local war ends (or PCs return from exterminating a local tribe of orcs, and then sell ALL of the weapons cheap!).

risk goods take big chances but offer great reward - if it works out. This lets the PCs gamble - junk bonds of the dnd mercantile world.

Well, any thoughts? Do the numbers look too screwy? Suggestions?

BB

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Tables n stuff..

That looks like a workable system, which I would be willing to use as is. It puts minimum impact/fuss over the details allowing the party to do trading while on other adventures.

I would add would be to roll the 3D8 on the buying side as well, allowing the market to drive both ends of the spectrum.
For easing the math a bit, I would also have the merchant skill check reduce the purchase price by an amount equal to the skill check minus a DC, in this case 10...making it possible to *increase* the price. {this is a mechanic I use for things like jump checks}

With the step drops due to time, I think Base could be by month, Worked by week, and Rare by Day. Most game worlds are large enough that a month travel time from the mine to the main city is not uncommon.


I must say, you are much better at refining rules than I am! I have this habit of getting the 'cool idea' but can't find a workable solution.

 

[Aristotle]

Neat idea, now that you mention it I don't think I've ever seen rules for commerce/trade for 3e. I think this would make for an excellent supplement. You could cover a trade mechanic, how to determine what comodities an area would likely have and need, and maybe place values on some things that adventurers could come by easily in their travels (hides, ivory, power components). Maybe some advanced rules for banking, investment, currency exchange rates (simplified for ease of gaming), or whatever.

Dunno that I've ever seen a product like that. Dunno that it would have a market. I'd buy it though, so long as the rules were kept simple and streamlined with the rest of the ruleset.