MERGED - "About Edition Wars" threads x9

[Cor_Malek]

Sorry, I'm still waiting for Ariosto to post. I belive he's made the argument in the past that there are only two editions of D&D: TSR D&D and WotC D&D.

Damn, I had really hoped for that torphy...

 

[Philosopher]

When AD&D came it, it was described by TSR as a different game from D&D. The D&D line ended, and the AD&D line dropped the A with 3e. If 3.5 is a different edition than 3.0, then 4e is actually the 5th edition of the game.

Of course, despite what TSR said about them being different games (which was motivated by not wanting to pay royalties to Arneson), AD&D nonetheless grew out of OD&D - they're certainly similar. But given that AD&D split off before B/X and BECMI came about, those latter editions may not count as part of AD&D's lineage... except that once you appeal to similarity and influence, you need to ask about whether B/X and BECMI influenced 3e. While you're on the topic, why not include Pathfinder (it's more similar to 3.5 than 4e is) or Castles & Crusades (it's more similar to 1e, and even 3e, than 4e is)? If you want to appeal to the fact that TSR/WotC owns the D&D brand, and that they're the only ones who get to call something D&D, then if they call 4e the 4th edition, then doesn't that settle the issue?

Very convoluted, isn't it? My point is that D&D does not form some sort of "natural kind". It depends on how you carve things up, and for what purposes. Legally, D&D is what WotC says it is. In terms of similarity, OD&D and 4e aren't really the same game.

 

[Doug McCrae]

1. D&D

They're all basically the same. Classes, levels, hit points, armor class, alignment, the six stats, d20 to hit, Vancian (by which I mean daily) magic. Vaguely medieval, vaguely European fantasy setting. Lots and lots of weird monsters, lots and lots of weird PC powers, lots and lots of magic items. PCs go down holes in the ground, kill the weird monsters, find treasure and magic items, get xp, go up levels.

Classes are defined by their equipment, amount of hit points and abilities. Fighter(ing men) have always been guys in armour with lots of hit points who hit things, wizards (or magic-users) have always been guys not in armor with few hit points who cast powerful spells. Clerics, a peculiar D&D-ism, heal, and always have done. The thief, or rogue has always been a skills guy who, when he's in the right place, deals massive damage.

The two most deviant editions are 2e, which is much more dramatist/world-builder than gamist, and not very dungeon-y, and 3e which gets rather simulationist, and, with its very easy multi-classing, perilously close to doing away with classes, which I consider the #1 most important element of D&D. OD&D, 1e and 4e are undiluted dungeon-bashing, strongly-classed, gamism.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

Okay, I'll count the editions like one would count textbook editions

1. Original D&D with hobbits, balrogs, and Ents
2. Original D&D with halflings, Type VI Demons, and Treants
3. Holmes D&D
4. Advanced D&D with a Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual
5. Advanced D&D with new covers (it could count if you say the transition from Dieties & Demigods to Legends & Lore does because of the elimination of Elric and Cthulhu).
6. The Original Basic and Expert Sets. Though this and the next are not part of the direct line instead being an offshoot.
7. The BECMI edition boxsets
8. The D&D Compendium and the brown Basic set that went with it, along with the Wrath of the Immortals Set
9. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition
10. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition with revised books and Skills & Powers (though you could count Skills & Powers separately since you didn't need the core PH to run a game).
11. Dungeons and Dragons 3rd Edition
12. Dungeons and Dragons 3.5
13. Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition
14. Dungeons and Dragons Essentials

So, 14 editions, maybe 15.

 

[JeffB]

No, there was a Gold Box edition of the 1974 publication.

There was no goldbox of that edition (the original game)- there was a woodgrain box with the white sticker shown, then the later white box (which is what I started with) & OCE whitebox.

The only Goldbox for the table top game would be the Immortals set (the "I" in BECMI)

 

[Nifft]

The truth of this is demonstrated by the fact that in the Grimtooth Traps series (of which there were seven total books), the third one is named "Grimtooth's Traps Fore!" and the fourth one is named "Grimtooth's Traps Ate!"

Likewise, the current (second IIRC) edition of Hackmaster is published as the 5th edition.

Yep yep. Those may be tongue-in-cheek, but there are companies who pick non-consecutive versions numbers for (allegedly) serious reasons like marketing. For example, Microsoft PowerPoint skipped some version numbers so it could be released at the same version number as the rest of Microsoft Office. Pure marketing move, but the version numbers are official.

Sorry, I'm still waiting for Ariosto to post. I belive he's made the argument in the past that there are only two editions of D&D: TSR D&D and WotC D&D.

I'm happy to out-do that cynicism with idealism.

There is only one D&D. All these different "editions" are just window-dressing for the shared joy of hanging out with friends, killing made-up monsters and taking their imaginary stuff.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Xyxox]

Point of order.

There is no such thing as a "Gold Box Edition of D&D".

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread started by somebody who wasn't there so has no idea of what was and what wasn't.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

There is more then one edition of D&D? [/diaglo]

 

[Achan hiArusa]

Technically, every roleplaying game out there is an edition of D&D because they all try to fix something the designers though was wrong with D&D. Whether it is going from a class to a class-less system, emphasizing story over killing things and taking their stuff, getting rid of upward spiralling hit points, utilizing a skill system, using a new and innovative die mechanic (or not using dice at all), doing science fiction or modern day instead of fantasy, playing monsters instead of heroes, whatever. So I could say every edition of every roleplaying game out there is in some way an Edition of D&D.

 

[Diamond Cross]

All right, I guess there was no Gold Box edition for 1974 D&D. Sorry about that.

I could've sworn I had actually held one in my hands though.

Could be the guy who was trying to sell me one for two hundred bucks was messing with me.

Sorry.