Merged: Against all odds [Darmanicus] & Adv. Party Needs Killing (Inconsequential-AL)

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Good job, guys! I looks like yer DM didn't pull any punches.

BTW: Consider a way to keep them from teleporting.....especially that pesky living Sor.

I've got a spare Dim. Anchor hanging around... just in case the BBEG decides to leave!

It was reasonably tough... but just about do-able. Another villan with long range attacks and we'd have had big problems!

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Actually, magic circle shouldn't do much to protect the wyverns or their riders as long as you can give the elementals good instructions. The trick is that, while magic circle keeps the elementals from approaching the protected wyverns (arguably--technically, a magic circle against good only works against good creatures and neutral elementals aren't effected at all but house ruling it to work like magic circle vs. evil (which does hedge out neutrals) is common and balanced and so common-sense that many people do it without realizing it's a house-rule), the circle is broken if the wyverns approach the elemental. Of course, wyverns have a fly speed and don't have good manueverability so they have to move forward several squares before they can turn and can't hover. So, if you can get your elemental to place itself in front of the wyvern, right at the edge of the circle, the wyvern will have to move towards the elemental--thereby breaking the magic circle--or stall and fall out of the sky.

The wyvern-riders could land instead but if you make them land, you've accomplished everything you could want.

 

[Darmanicus]

Actually, magic circle shouldn't do much to protect the wyverns or their riders as long as you can give the elementals good instructions. The trick is that, while magic circle keeps the elementals from approaching the protected wyverns (arguably--technically, a magic circle against good only works against good creatures and neutral elementals aren't effected at all but house ruling it to work like magic circle vs. evil (which does hedge out neutrals) is common and balanced and so common-sense that many people do it without realizing it's a house-rule), the circle is broken if the wyverns approach the elemental. Of course, wyverns have a fly speed and don't have good manueverability so they have to move forward several squares before they can turn and can't hover. So, if you can get your elemental to place itself in front of the wyvern, right at the edge of the circle, the wyvern will have to move towards the elemental--thereby breaking the magic circle--or stall and fall out of the sky.

The wyvern-riders could land instead but if you make them land, you've accomplished everything you could want.

Unfortunately these wyverns have perfect maneuverability............they can hover!

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

Unfortunately these wyverns have perfect maneuverability............they can hover!

Some more ideas

Should FR-Spells be permitted in your campaign -

take "Firebrand" (5th level arcane; MoFaerun) - with an 'Energy Substitution' should you be able to get it in. 11 x 5' spreads should make flying cinders/hash out of the wyverns (who, being 4' square in size could be hit by four bursts - each hitting another square. 11d6 damage per burst (firebrand's upper limit is 15d6) - do the math. 210' should do for range. Killing/Disabling the wyverns in midflight should bother their riders, too. Brutal, yet effective.
Of course, Energy Substituition becomes a "must" if they absorb fire damage for HP.

The revised "Gedlee's Elctric Loop" (2nd level arcane, MoFaerun, revised in PGoF ) might help, as the "stunning" effect might work on the wyverns (GM-check) which could cause problems in a 'power dive' attack.

"Baleful Polymorph" might just be another nasty surprise - as it affects undead these days (who have notoriously poor Fort Saves - and are not immune), try turning a wyvern into a flying toad/mouse/squirrel... and watch the stupid look on its rider's mug turn into panic.


If "Relics and Rituals I +II " from SSS should be permissible sources for spells, try using "Shocking Missile" (arcane/ranger 2nd level ) on your archer's ammunition for some truly nasty hits, and "Touch of the Eel" (arcane/divine 3rd ) as a offensive/defensive option.

 

[Pielorinho]

"Baleful Polymorph" might just be another nasty surprise - as it affects undead these days (who have notoriously poor Fort Saves - and are not immune), try turning a wyvern into a flying toad/mouse/squirrel... and watch the stupid look on its rider's mug turn into panic.

Nitpick: creatures get a +4 to their save if they're being turned into a form that would be deadly for them, and a DM might easily decide that being turned into a squirrel when you're 200' in the air is enough to get that +4 bonus.

Turn the wyvern into a canary instead, and you and the rider can both watch it go flying harmlessly off .

Daniel

 

[TimSmith]

An update!

We had the first part of this fight last night... It went good!

Managed to split the orcs up with some distraction tactics. Got the fight into a wooded copse - which was the most cover we could get - thought carefully about the compound, but we'd have had an extra few hundred orc archers to deal with, so left it...

Took on two of them - a druid and an order of the bow initiate.

So how did you split them? Sounds to me like you could do with accomplishing this again if you have any more tricks up your sleeve-or a way of using their familiarity with your last trick to double bluff them (depending what you did, of course!)

If the 2 of them almost took down your Paladin and depleted your resources, then the other 4 plus sorceror are going to be killers now they know your capabilities and so on.

I guess that your elemental will be the surprise punch in the next fight, but it seems to me that you need to use what they think they know against them if you can. What about illusions to disguise your guys as each other (so the orcs target the wrong chap with their planned assault and your wizard can summon his elemental in peace etc)? Imagine the look on their Rogue's face if he sneaks into camp hoping to take out your wizard and instead ends up on the wrong end of your Paladin's falchion.

Obviously, you know the exact situation better than me but it seems as if they will cream you in a fair fight and they now have some knowledge of you. You have got to be even more devious and cunning to prevail this time!

 

[Darmanicus]

We came up with the idea of calling a hound archon then arranging for it to 'port in with us then run distraction by 'porting somewhere between the keep and where the smoke signals had come from. Once it had done this it started to make signals of its own to call Shattersoul back to his main camp.

Because of all the 'port signatures going off in the area Shattersoul decided to send a couple off to investigate the smoke initially. Once they were outta sight our mage nuked the druid orc and a load of the norms with a fireball all the way from the copse. I can only assume Shattersoul was expecting some further assault on the fortress from elsewhere coz he only sent the druid and one of the archers at us.

In our present state I'd have to agree with you, we're in no condition to face even another couple of them. Hopefully everyone will agree on plane-shifting to good ol' Pelors and se if he'll put us up for the night!? :\

 

[Thanee]

Depending on what those orcs use to fight (assuming big weapons), polymorphing (into some giant) and grappling could work well.

Know Protections is a first level spell (I think it's available to Paladin also), which allows you to find out a lot about their weaknesses.

Bye
Thanee

 

[TimSmith]

We came up with the idea of calling a hound archon then arranging for it to 'port in with us then run distraction by 'porting somewhere between the keep and where the smoke signals had come from. Once it had done this it started to make signals of its own to call Shattersoul back to his main camp.

Because of all the 'port signatures going off in the area Shattersoul decided to send a couple off to investigate the smoke initially. Once they were outta sight our mage nuked the druid orc and a load of the norms with a fireball all the way from the copse. I can only assume Shattersoul was expecting some further assault on the fortress from elsewhere coz he only sent the druid and one of the archers at us.

In our present state I'd have to agree with you, we're in no condition to face even another couple of them. Hopefully everyone will agree on plane-shifting to good ol' Pelors and se if he'll put us up for the night!? :\[/QUOTE

Yes, indeed-I've heard Pelor's cool with people kipping on his floor if they're in need of recovery from a long night out with the boys!

Seriously, will you be able to do this? If I remember, you have some horselord allies etc from the orc prison and you can only planeshift 8 of you. I don't think you mentioned your goals at the Orc fort- are you under any sort of time pressure? If not, then I suppose Shattersoul will get bored or be needed elsewhere and when he's munched the horsemen he may depart. Depends a lot on what you are there to do and if you mind abandoning your new mates!

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I think you've hit the problem on the head... We're getting under time pressures now. Not sure whether we're going to be able to fit in a rest...

Unfortunately we took quite a heavy beating dealing with the first 2 guys. Burned through a lot of magic as well.

Plane Shift is not really a 'rest' option. More of a desparate 'last resort' option. I'll hopefully be OK, being a worshiper of Pelor, as is the Ranger. Hopefully, we wouldn't be thrown out without a hearing. Not sure how welcome the others are likely to be...

However, it's the only place I've got a tuning fork for! (apart from the Prime!)

I think we need to get clever!


Know protections sounds rather interesting - where is from?