Meta-Magic Rod + Spell Storing Item

[Hypersmurf]

The ring is *activated*, as it says in this sentence here: [The activation time for the ring is same as the casting time for the relevant spell, with a minimum of 1 standard action.]

"A minor ring of spell storing contains up to three levels of spells that the wearer can cast."

It looks like the text can be quoted to support either view...

On a side note, storing a Quickened Spell (even if you have to add the +4 levels) doesn't seem worth it - since the Ring still requires an activation time of 1 standard action. Or did I miss something?

No, you're right.

The casting time of a spell is the same time required to activate the power from an item, unless the item description states otherwise.

In this case, the item description states otherwise.

-Hyp.

 

[Shallown]

The thing about meta-magic rods is just becuase you don't pay the extra cost of a higher spell level doesn't mean the spell is lower level. Everything else absorbs/stores/"percieves" the spell as what it is a higher level spell. Its a useful, fair way to look at it to close any loopholes of abuse.

To set forth an example. If you had an item that made a chunk of coal into a diamond it is cheap for you to use and make a diamond but everyone else treats the diamond as a diamond not as a chunk of coal.

Now I wonder if I just made any sense

LAter

 

[Ovinomancer]

To the topic of discussion, I would have to say: no.

The spell stored in the ring/item of spell storing has technically already been 'cast.' The use of the item/ring is only the release of a delayed spell. The parameters of the spell stored were determined at the time of the storing, and should/could not be modified after that time. IMHO.

As for using the rod to modify a spell as it is being stored, the rod description states that it does not modify the slot used to cast it. It could be argued that since this is the only exception that the rod allows for then the normal rules for metamagic apply. IE, a metamagic feat adjusts the LEVEL of the spell being cast, and thus the slot used to cast it. Since the rod only affects the slot of the spell cast, it does not affect the level, and so the normal rules for storing metamagic spells would apply.

My 2 cp.

 

[Thanee]

Now I wonder if I just made any sense

You state exactly why I think, why a spell, which is placed into a ring of spellstoring enhanced with a metamagic rod would need the higher spell level for storing.

And since I am of the opinion, that you cannot cast a spell from such an item, in the same way a spellcaster casts a spell, but rather activate the item and the item basically performs the "spellcasting" for you, it also doesn't work the other way then, to use the metamagic rod while "casting" the spell.

And yes, I know what the item description says (points to Hypersmurf's quote above), but I don't think this is meant to be an exception to the standard procedure of using a magic item.

So to me this leaves the question, whether a scroll, which is most certainly the closest thing to actual spellcasting could be modifed this way during casting.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

...a metamagic feat adjusts the LEVEL of the spell being cast...

Not really, the spell level is technically unchanged, i.e. when it comes to getting past a globe of invulnerability. It just needs more "energy" to be cast, thus a higher spell slot, or the power of a magic item (metamagic rod).

The ring is not able to provide this "energy", as it can only store spells with a certain amount of "energy".



The following are the two most important quotes to underline my opinion:

Metamagic versions of spells take up storage space equal to their spell level modified by the metamagic feat.

This is absolute, it is in no way relevant in what way the spell was modified, or if it was cast from a slot equal to the modified or unmodified spell level.

The user need not provide any material components or focus, or pay an XP cost to cast the spell, and there is no arcane spell failure chance for wearing armor (because the ring wearer need not gesture). The activation time for the ring is same as the casting time for the relevant spell, with a minimum of 1 standard action.

Whatever it is, the user does, it most certainly is not "spellcasting", it's just similar enough to be called "casting a spell".

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shallown]

I think the big mistake is that the ring says the wearer can Cast the spell instead of just can use the spell. As far as casting goes it doesn't follow any rules for actual casting a spell including Stat requirements etc. I think it is one of those times they used a Game term in a general way. "Cast" in the game means something but they just used it inappropriately.

It should have been called a command word item. Then close the loop hole of casting time by saying spells taking longer than a standard action to cast cannot be placed in the ring.

There are 4 specific ways to activate magic items and this item needs to ID which it is.

Later

 

[Ovinomancer]

Thanee: I yield the point. I got a little hasty and perhaps chose the wrong wording for my point. Aside from that, I belive we are argueing in the same point.

 

[Scharlata]

It should have been called a command word item.

Hi!

Don't think they should've done, because then no nonspellcaster could USE the spells "stored" within. I'd like to point out to the general direction of wands....

Thanee, I now got your point but I'm not gonna make it my own. I still think that you cast the spells from the ring, and that the spells within the ring are not stored like - for example - spells in vials (as potions). Potions are liquified spells and the Brew Potion feat and all corresponding explanations from multiple sources of the DMG state that you (as brewer of the potion) determine all variables and targets beforehand. The drinker of the potion is merely a puppet (or focus, if you like) for the application of the spell.

Not so the spells within the ring of spell storing. There is no text denying any of the "normal" casting methods. That includes no denying of AoOs from casting the spell in a threatened zone; no denying the possibility of "casting" the spells stored defensively, etc.

Besides: I still think that a spell meta'gicked by a metamagic rod is energized to NOT be slotted-up. Put a meta'gicked spell from any other source into the ring and look for the slotted-up place to be stored. If you put a meta'gicked spell form a meta' rod into a spell storing ring and keep the unmodified slot.

Kind regards

 

[Hypersmurf]

Don't think they should've done, because then no nonspellcaster could USE the spells "stored" within. I'd like to point out to the general direction of wands....

Wands aren't command word items, they're spell trigger items.

Anyone can use a command word item.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

There is no text denying any of the "normal" casting methods. That includes no denying of AoOs from casting the spell in a threatened zone; no denying the possibility of "casting" the spells stored defensively, etc.

Well, but there is a rule, which states, that it has to be called specifically to alter the standard activation method... I don't see anything in the ring's description, which says it is a spell completion or spell trigger item, or even use activated. Therefore it is activated by command word.

Activation: Usually, a ring’s ability is activated by a command word (a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity) or it works continually. Some rings have exceptional activation methods, according to their descriptions.

Bye
Thanee