LightPhoenix said:
Quicken Spell is definitely overpriced at +4. While being able to launch two spells a round is great, the overall utility of most spells does not make them even close to the utility of a spell four levels higher.
But I'd argue that it's not supposed to be. If a Quickened 4th-level spell was equal in power to an 8th-level spell, there'd be no reason to learn 8th-level spells. Everyone would just be using their newbie spells, metamagicked like crazy.
Most metamagics seem to cost double what they should, in terms of spell levels. By taking the Feat, you get the flexibility of being able to apply it to any spell; spells with the metamagic effect built in are less flexible, and so are penalized less. Look at the splatbook/PsiHB spells that are auto-quickened; they'll only be around 2 levels higher than the non-quickened version. Same goes for all those "Mass X" spells.
So yes, Quicken at +4 is overpriced, because it's designed that way; it's still giving you a capability you wouldn't otherwise have, so people still use it, but if you really intend to make use of it heavily on only one spell, you should research an inherently quickened spell instead. And, someone who knows the quickened version instead can't choose NOT to quicken, to save the spell levels...
If you want to stick with the core spells, take Fireball and DB Fireball, for example. FB is 3rd level. DBFB is 7th. The save DC is different by 4, so to get an equivalence you'd need to Heighten by +4. To go from levelD6 to levelD8 is equivalent to half an Empower, so call that +1 levels. The Delay Spell metamagic is +3. Finally, the level cap goes from 10 to 15; if that's not included in Heighten then it'd be another +2 for the Empower-equivalent. In total, that means it takes 8-10 levels of metamagic to turn a 3rd-level spell into a 7th-level.
So, no combination of metamagic will ever make Fireball the equal of a higher-level damage spell. It WILL, however, make it more flexible, since you could choose to leave out the Delay part to reduce its level if you didn't need that capability. Or maybe you wanted a Still, Silent Fireball... it'll still have its uses.
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Since this is the House Rules forum, it's only fair to give some suggestions.
If you want to balance metamagic without increasing spell levels, I feel you need to get away from the whole spell-slot concept entirely. Not get rid of slots in general, I mean remove the link between metamagic and spell levels; if you keep the old +level system it penalizes the high-level spells too much, and if you switch to your "second slot" system it makes it too cheap for high-level spells. If you allow metamagic to be applied on the fly, and penalize the caster in some other way, things might balance better.
For example, in our homebrew the Wizard-like class memorizes spells (more like a Cleric than a Wizard), but uses metamagic spontaneously. Basically, it goes like this:
> You get a number of Metamagic Points (MP) per day equal to your ranks in a certain skill we've added to the game (you could use Spellcraft instead, or maybe the appropriate Knowledge?). There's a feat that lets you add your spellcasting stat mod to this number.
> Only one metamagic can be applied to a spell at a time. There's a Feat that removes this limitation.
> All Wizards start with one level 1 metamagic form (most popular is Empower I, which adds ~25% by bumping all dice up one size). At the cost of a Feat, you can choose two more level 1s (we might change this to 3). With a second Feat, you can choose two level 2s. A third gives level 3s. And so on. In most cases, the "level" of a metaform is the old +X number, from 1 to 4, although some have been moved. I've got a list of 40 or so to choose from.
> Using a metaform on a spell deducts X MPs, and disables that form for X rounds. So, if Quicken is a level 4 form, and I quicken a spell this round, I can't do it again for 4 more rounds and it'll use up 4 of my points. (There's a feat that reduces this delay to 1dX rounds)
So, use it too heavily and you'll run out of points, the bigger forms aren't available unless you spend several feats, and the delay keeps you from throwing Empower and Quicken on every spell. The nicest part of this, though, is that it allows people to pick a few of the less common metamagics without feeling like they've wasted a Feat. I mean really, how many people took metamagics like Delay, Transdimensional or Subdual Substitution without having some specific tactic in mind? And, while some people prefer an X/day form, I like how the metamagics all draw from a common pool, so you're not stuck at the end of the day with a bunch of unused Still Spell activations.
