Metamagic Questions

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) As I understand it, Divine Metamagic does not require that the PC have the underlying Metamagic or any prereqs- is this correct?

2) If I take Persistent Spell, it says that it makes "fixed or personal" spells that are not of instantaneous duration last 24 hours. However, I can't find a real definition for "fixed." By the examples in the Feat's text, it includes things that have non-variable ranges- "60'" or "40'" as opposed to something like "100' + 10'/level"- and may even have an area of effect. So, does "fixed" include touch spells? If so, does this include touch spells that may target multiple individuals?

 

[Dandu]

1) As I understand it, Divine Metamagic does not require that the PC have the underlying Metamagic or any prereqs- is this correct?

Benefit: When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat that you have. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat.

2) If I take Persistent Spell, it says that it makes "fixed or personal" spells that are not of instantaneous duration last 24 hours. However, I can't find a real definition for "fixed." By the examples in the Feat's text, it includes things that have non-variable ranges- "60'" or "40'" as opposed to something like "100' + 10'/level"- and may even have an area of effect. So, does "fixed" include touch spells? If so, does this include touch spells that may target multiple individuals?

It is debated, but I think the general consensus is that it does not include touch spells. You'll have to use shenanigans to do it with touch spells. I recommend considering Reach Spell or Ocular spell for starters.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: 1st question.

It seems as if my 4AM reading skills have deteriorated a mite...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Upon further review, my 4AM reading skills are just fine.

CompDiv, p80
Prerequisite: ability to turn undead or rebuke undead.
Benefit: When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat....

That "that you have" language is absent, at least in my copy.

Did CompDiv get revised, the Feat reprinted in another book, or was there some kind of errata issued that added that phrase?

 

[Dandu]

I got my information from Realmshelp.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I am not sure if there was an official errata on Divine Metamagic or not, but I believe that there was something (errata, FAQ, Rules of the Game... etc.) to the effect of:

1: The feat is applied to a metamagic feat that you already possess...

2: Touch range spells are not affected. In this case, "fixed" refers to spells with a non-variable numeric range (i.e. detect magic has a range of 60ft.)

Of course, with no citation, I don't know how much help that will be.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) Well, most of the guys in our group- our current DM included- only use the SRD as far as online resources go...although I must agree that the revision in question would reduce the potency of Divine Metamagic in a relatively sensible way. I'm kind of loathe to powergame, personally, but DMing Persistent has a certain appeal. And since you'd have to burn 7 turn undead attempts, that means that most Clerics could only do that to 1-2 spells a day...and would be unable to turn undead afterwards.

2) So you can target yourself, or can have something that is a radius, cone or the like last 24 hours, but a non-instantaneous touch spell is off limits? That seems odd. Is it perhaps because of the power of such spells?

 

[thorian]

From the Complete Divine errata:

Page 80: Divine Metamagic feat
The boldface text needs to be added to the Benefit
paragraph of the feat description:
When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat that
you have. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat.
As a free action, you can take the energy from turning
or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat
to divine spells that you know. . . .

Also, it is important to remember that only turn undead attempts may be used, not turn plants, elementals, etc.

Touch spells do not count as fixed-range spells. I am unable to find the citation right now, but I'll look around.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Thanks! Interesting that they also limit it to divine spells. Good to know.

Where is that errata located? Got a link?

As for the turning thing, yeah, I knew it was Turn Undead only. Some of the Divine feats are unclear, but that one isn't.

Given the PC this is for, though, I wish they had had more than just Elemental Healing and Elemental Smiting for use with non-Undead turnings. He's a cleric of Obad-Hai, so he has Turn/Rebukes for Plant & Air creatures. With Extra Turning adding to EACH of a PC's turn types, my guy's wandering around with 33 Turns in his pocket.

And only 11 of them can be used to power his Sacred Healing (CompDiv version).

 

[Dandu]

2) So you can target yourself, or can have something that is a radius, cone or the like last 24 hours, but a non-instantaneous touch spell is off limits? That seems odd. Is it perhaps because of the power of such spells?

No.