Metamagic Rods and Item Creation

[AuraSeer]

Say I'm a wizard, and I've come across a Metamagic Rod of Empower. It lets me use Empower Spell three times per day, even though I don't have the feat.

Using the rod, can I scribe a scroll of Empowered magic missile? If I lend the rod to my cleric buddy, does it let him brew Empowered cure potions?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Using the rod, can I scribe a scroll of Empowered magic missile? If I lend the rod to my cleric buddy, does it let him brew Empowered cure potions?

My ruling would be: Yes, but it still counts as a 3rd level spell on the scroll, and has a minimum caster level of 5. If you're a 1st level caster with a Rod of Empower, you can use it to produce an Empowered Magic Missile... but your own caster level isn't sufficient to actually create the scroll. If you're a 5th level caster, it works just fine.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... I'd actually say no, you have to know the feat for real, but the rules do not really cover that.

My line of thinking is, that you need some understanding of what you do there... and the rod does not provide that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

My line of thinking is, that you need some understanding of what you do there... and the rod does not provide that.

You can supply a spell prerequisite from an item.

If you can scribe a Scroll of Fireball using charges from a Wand of Fireball, without knowing or understanding the spell, why not a Scroll of Empowered Magic Missile via an Empower Rod, without having the feat?

-Hyp.

 

[nhl_1997]

My ruling would be: Yes, but it still counts as a 3rd level spell on the scroll, and has a minimum caster level of 5. If you're a 1st level caster with a Rod of Empower, you can use it to produce an Empowered Magic Missile... but your own caster level isn't sufficient to actually create the scroll. If you're a 5th level caster, it works just fine.

-Hyp.

How can a 1st level caster scribe a scroll at caster level 5?

(edit)
Oops, I think you're suggesting that the 1st level caster could not scribe that scroll with the rod.

 

[Thanee]

If you can scribe a Scroll of Fireball using charges from a Wand of Fireball, ...

I was trying to find that, but can't... where does it say that again?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

I was trying to find that, but can't... where does it say that again?

Prerequisites: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... it's still a bit different (since spell completion and spell trigger items do require some knowledge (i.e. spell cannot be of a prohibited school)). The rod gives you an ability without any kind of knowledge. OTOH it's similar in the way, that it can only be used with actual spellcasting (unlike a command word or use activated item, which produces a spell effect).

Bye
Thanee

 

[WCrawford]

You can supply a spell prerequisite from an item.

If you can scribe a Scroll of Fireball using charges from a Wand of Fireball, without knowing or understanding the spell, why not a Scroll of Empowered Magic Missile via an Empower Rod, without having the feat?

-Hyp.

You can use a spell trigger or spell competion item in magic item creation, not use or command activated.

 

[WCrawford]

Hmm... it's still a bit different (since spell completion and spell trigger items do require some knowledge (i.e. spell cannot be of a prohibited school)). The rod gives you an ability without any kind of knowledge. OTOH it's similar in the way, that it can only be used with actual spellcasting (unlike a command word or use activated item, which produces a spell effect).

Bye
Thanee

The metamagic rods are all use activated and thus can't be use in magic item creation.