MIC - Broken?

[Jhaelen]

Also, have you noticed that to create an item from the Sets, one of the prerequisites is the have an item from the set. That really cracks me up on many levels .

Well, that's not that different from one of the more common requirements to join a certain group/guild: You need to be invited by one (or several) members...

Basically, the rules assume you're just making copies of the original or another copy. Creating a new set from scratch isn't covered by the rules.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Where does all this talk of "buying" magic items come from? Part of the balancing of magic items is that they are not easily available as inventory.

 

[Bagpuss]

From the GP limit towns have in 3.0 onwards. Players feel they should be able to purchase items within the towns GP limit, and the DMG actually suggests that as well.

 

[Stalker0]

From the GP limit towns have in 3.0 onwards. Players feel they should be able to purchase items within the towns GP limit, and the DMG actually suggests that as well.

Agreed. Further, the fact that npcs with the right feats can craft items suggests they can provide them to those willing to pay.

 

[glass]

Where does all this talk of "buying" magic items come from? Part of the balancing of magic items is that they are not easily available as inventory.

On the contrary, part of the balancing of magic items is that they are. This may sometimes be regrettable, flavour-wise, but that doesn't make it any less true.


glass.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

I've felt that magic items are more balancing when they aren't available for easy trade. The PCs cannot just cash in those Goggles of Minute Seeing they just found to invest in a better Amulet of Natural Armor. As a result, they spend time figuring out how to maximize the potential of having the Goggles available.

I've played both with the magic shop and without the magic shop, and the latter way is far more balanced and interesting, in my experience. The characters spend more time learning about the tools they've found, and use them to meet the challenges on their own terms. If the trade-out is possible, then suddenly there's only one solution for everything--bash it in. Less maneuvering, less demand on tactics and strategy, less interest. In addition, there is a greater chance for every challenge to get easier unless the DM escalates at the same rate. Eventually, the game devolves into who gets to smash more first. I got videogames for that.

I wholehearted disagree with the idea that the magic shop balances magic item use, both in concept and in practice.

 

[eamon]

My players use the MIC extensively, and I try to use as many MIC items as possible in loot. It's just entertaining to see them come up with some new use or whatnot. Keeps things from becoming stagnant.

I don't think I've seen any game-breaker in the MIC, though there are far too many for me to be sure. Many things such as healing belts seem cheap, but work out fine in game. Generally, the DMG items are far less well balanced speaking globally. There are items everyone needs to have, and items no one will ever buy, always selling them (to some insane buyer who wants them ).

Hellcat gauntlets aren't that powerful. Sure, they're cheap - but a lesser rod of empower can empower a fireball to 15d6 damage by 10 character level, to all affected creatures. Hellcat gauntlets, by 10 character level, only add 5d6 slashing damage to a spell which must be 5th level - but that's unhandy, since you have far few fifth level slots. It also only applies to one opponent, and to spells with a Target: line. Finally, damage reduction applies, which is problematic, since many many creatures have damage reduction/magic by that level.

I'd say the hellcat gauntlets aren't overpowered compared to the rod of empower, all things (such as price) considered.

A better strategy, if you find the power creep objectionable, is to allow MIC in its entirety, but to reduce treasure across the board by 10-50%. You'll still have the enhanced selection and fun, but will be less dependant on magic items. This will, of course, shift balance toward buffers and classes which don't require magic items to function (such as the druid), but I'd prefer that to the DMG's boring, badly balanced fare.

 

[Thurbane]

Well, I have to say this is the first time I've disagreed with Thurbane...but hey...new experiences can be interesting!

...different solutions work for different groups. In the groups I've been involved with, the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" approach has been problematic, but hey, if it works for your group, all that much better.

I don't have anything against the MIC as such - it's a great resource.

 

[Shin Okada]

IMHO, Magic Item compendium is best used as "only for DMs". I mean, DM read the book, and if he thinks a certain item is OK, he let that item appear in the game as treasure or opponent's equipment (then PC can get it).

The items in the book (and those DMG II, IMHO) , are not something simply "opened" for players.

 

[Thurbane]

IMHO, Magic Item compendium is best used as "only for DMs". I mean, DM read the book, and if he thinks a certain item is OK, he let that item appear in the game as treasure or opponent's equipment (then PC can get it).

The items in the book (and those DMG II, IMHO) , are not something simply "opened" for players.

I tend to concur, but that depends heavily on the style of game you are playing. One school of thought is that magic items should be rare and wonderful, and handed out as treasure and rewards. The other holds that there is absolutely no reason that magic items should be the province of DMs only, and that PCs should be able to buy and manufacture them as they see fit.

I've grown to learn that neither is inherently right (although my 1E/2E roots steer me more towards the first school of thought), but are simply different styles of play.