Micommunication - strange

[Bullgrit]

I've noticed a serious problem in my group, and I'm wondering if it is just our group or if it is common. I can't imagine that it is just us, but I don't remember this problem so much with other groups I've played with. And I've seen this problem with our group both as a Player and when I DM. It doesn't seem to be just one or two people, but rather everyone (including myself) at one point or another.

There is a terrible breakdown in communications.

To illustrate, let me completely make up some examples:

DM: "This guy <moving a mini> steps over to you and attacks. <rolls attack. hits. rolls 2d6 damage>
Player 1: "2d6 damage? What kind of mace is that?"
DM: "Its a greatsword."
Player 1: "A greatsword?! I wouldn't have moved near him if I had known that. I'm only a rogue."
DM: "I said it was a greatsword when you first saw him. And he hit Player 3 with it last round."
Player 1: "You did?"
Player 2: "Yeah, I heard it and saw it."
Player 3: "Me too. I knew it was a greatsword."
Player 4: "I didn't know that. I thought it was a mace."

* * *

Player 2: "OK, I'll run and jump over the pit. <rolls Jump check>
DM: "It's thirty feet wide!"
Player 2: "What? I thought you said it was ten feet wide and thirty feet deep."
DM: "No, I said it was thirty feet wide and thirty feet deep."
Player 1: "I heard the thirty feet wide."
Player 3: "What pit?"
Player 4: "Yep, thirty feet wide. You surprised me when you talked about jumping it."

* * *

Player 3: "I'll search this door <pointing to battlegrid> for traps, and then listen at it."
DM: "That's not a door, its a fireplace."
Player 3: "I thought you said it was the only other door out of the room."
DM: "Nope. I said the door you came in was the only door out of the room."
Player 1: "I knew it was a fireplace. It's even got a burning fire in it."
Player 2: "I thought it was a book shelf."
Player 4: "I heard him say it was a fireplace. He said there were some books on the mantel over the fireplace."

* * *

I hope I showed it well enough. There is often someone(s) who misses a sentence or two from the DM or from a Player, or who completely messes up what someone says (a few books on the mantel "became" a bookshelf to someone). Sometimes a Player (or the DM) goes for several minutes, (or a whole game session) with misinformation because communication sometime got misunderstood.

There's been times when a whole 5 minutes can be spent straightening out some misunderstanding. The miscommunication itself is not the big deal that I'm asking about, though. Miscommunication and misunderstandings can and will happen in a verbal game. The thing that astonishes me about all this is how one or two persons out of the 4, 5, 6, or 7 total can hear it wrong, or maybe they are the only ones who heard it right.

For instance, the DM describes something, then 5 minutes later when something "serious" is occurning based on that description, 2 of the 4 Players have misunderstood, but the other 2 Players completely heard and understood the DM's words. And it's not always the same Players misunderstanding or correctly understanding. There's no pattern that I can see.

Sometimes I'm the one (as a Player myself) correcting a misunderstanding Player, sometimes I'm the one getting my misunderstanding straightened out. And sometimes it's the DM who has misunderstood or not heard a Player say something that all the other Players heard.

It's really weird. And it happens often enough that I've been noticing it regularly. At least once a game session -- sometimes several times a game session. Sometimes the miscommunication causes a serious problem.

I've even seen it happen with written communication. For instance, I have a piece of paper that we used (I was DM, this time) when one PC spoke the language of some humanoids the party encountered at the entrance to a wild town. The PC "explained" to the humanoid squad leader that the party was a band of traders come to trade with the humanoids. Bluff and Diplomacy got the group into the town to see the chief. When introduced to the chief the next morning (maybe 20 minutes Real Time after the initial conversation with the squad leader), the chief asked what they had to trade. The face-man PC said they didn't bring anything to trade because they didn't realize the humanoids were traders. What? That struck me as odd, but the conversation continued and the PCs got the info and directions they came for anyway.

Later I got out the pieces of paper we had used for the earlier conversation, and sure enough, right there in his own handwriting, the Player had written that his group were traders come to trade. But then 20 minutes later (Real Time), he thought *I* (the DM) had been the one to initiate trading.

Again, I understand how this can happen occassionally. But this seems to happen all too often in our group. Complete misunderstandings. Meanings twisted. Statements completely missed. Things heard that weren't actually said. Etc. And always, some Players hear and understand completely, while others missed it -- so it's not like the communication wasn't clear from the mouth of the person speaking. Something happens between the ears of one or two listeners.

So, do you encounter this problem often? How to fix it? If it was just a matter of a DM not communicating well, that I know how to fix. But when it is a matter of one or two out of a group not getting the communication, I don't know how to fix it (especially as it isn't always the same person(s)).

Bullgrit

 

[andargor]

Hi!

Perhaps your post should be in General, as this is the Rules forum.

Nevertheless, I shall try to help.

A few questions:

Is everyone paying attention to what is being said? Do players talk to each other while something is going on? Do the players take notes? Is the DM speaking in a clear and understandable voice?

All of the above factors contribute to the way communications occur. My advice:

- The player's attention should be riveted to the DM when something "important" is happening. It is OK for a player to RP his character as not paying attention to a conversation (say, if he's chaotic), but it has to be RP. Of course, during less important moments, taking time for a little social banter is OK (it is a social gathering between friends, after all).

- The players should not speak while the DM is speaking, except during RP (if a character cuts off an NPC, for example)

- Players should take notes. Or the DM can give a synopsis of what happened last game verbally or in written form at the beginning of each game. This keeps continuity. Since most DMs are overworked as it is, perhaps a player can be assigned as "scribe" to take down notes, and pass them along to the other players at every game. This is useful for the group if you want to assemble "chronicles" of a specific campaing.

- If the DM is mumbling or speaking in too low a voice, ask him to speak up. Or if a player is talking to another player while the DM is speaking, tell him to wait until the DM finishes.

- Use a battlemap. Use figurines. The DM draws the location you are in and describes each of it's features. That way you will see that the pit is 30', instead of 10'...

*The masculine used in this post is for legibility. The female is assumed for female players/DMs.

HTH,

Andargor

 

[Christian]

Well, I can't point any fingers from here ... But I had a player who consistently had problems with this sort of thing in a Shadowrun game I used to run. (My favorite was when he'd missed the explanation of the marks on the battlemap, and tried to take cover from automatic weapons fire behind a plate-glass window.) When he failed to turn up for a session, we tried to contact him & found out he'd been arrested for possession of marijuana. Turned out the son-of-a-gun had been coming to games high. Kinda messes with your concentration, dontcha know ... Just a thought.

 

[Infiniti2000]

First, let me congratulate you on excellent examples. They made me chuckle. What pit, indeed.

Second, this type of thing happens to everyone, but the problem is that it happens too frequently in your group. The primary reason that this would happen is because the players are not paying attention. Pure and simple. Either they are not paying attention at all or not enough. Ban things like laptops (the most likely reason for not paying attention), cell phones (except on emergencies or if someone is on call at work), and especially hand-held gaming devices. Another reason is that some people will spend almost the whole session picking and repicking spells. Make such people pick spells in under 5 minutes and be done with it. While roleplaying, don't let people refer to their character sheets for too long. To listen properly, you really need to look at the person you are listening to. It is not only possible, it is quite likely to mishear someone if you do not watch them speak. More importantly, you do not glean important communicative information from the speaker's body language and gesturing.

Lastly, about the written communication. This is another case of plain not paying attention. Actually, I'd go a little further to suggest it's a case of not really caring about the game. If you don't care enough to pay attention to obvious details, then you have a different style of play than you indicate. There simple is no good reason not to remember the detail was written down in the same game session.

 

[isoChron]

I experienced the same misunderstandings in the groups I play in or DM. Most of the time it's a result of inattentiveness on the side of the players. Sometimes (very seldom) the DM mixes up some facts.

Even drawing out the map on the battlemat doesn't help all of the time.

Sometimes the players assume something based on informations given by the DM ("He cast a spell. Your spellcarft check tells you it's See Invisibility"). They talk aloud about the "Wizard" and only the DM knows it's a Hexblade. Now if the hexblades close in and attack in melee they wonder what happened to the "Wizard"...

 

[Bullgrit]

Perhaps your post should be in General, as this is the Rules forum.

Oops. I thought I was in General when I posted this. Can a mod move it, please?

Thanks for the advice. But to address some comments, I don't think we have any players right now who aren't truly interested in the game. We originally had a group of 6 Players plus the DM. We dropped 2 Players who were just too troublesome, and then about a year later had another Player drop for Real World reasons. So we are down to the 4 (Players and DM) most enthusiastic and attentive players.

I know I have sometimes missed something by looking at my character sheet. Something is going on, I think of something maybe I can do/use, look at my character sheet for a moment to see if I have it (skill ranks, gear item, etc.), then look back at the game/DM. I've learned that sometimes in those 3-5 seconds, I've missed something. But then there are other times when I miss something and I can't think of a moment I wasn't paying attention. And I don't notice the other Players or DM "drifting" or getting distracted often.

Sometimes the players assume something based on informations given by the DM ("He cast a spell. Your spellcarft check tells you it's See Invisibility"). They talk aloud about the "Wizard" and only the DM knows it's a Hexblade. Now if the hexblades close in and attack in melee they wonder what happened to the "Wizard"...

Now this is something I've seen happen. Especially back when we had 6 Players at the table. I have seen a Player take what they heard another Player say and assume either the DM said it or it was just a fact. Especially when many people are talking at once. Fortunately, this problem has lessened considerably since we're down to 3 Players and a DM.

Bullgrit

 

[SBMC]

We had a sort of similar problem (almost exactly) at one point; there was a cause for it (I won’t bother to get into it since it is not really relevant here). Below is what we do; sort of pieced together over time and we all adhere to it:


Time:
We have 30 seconds to act on our turn (enforced mostly in combat) including the time it takes the DM to tell you the answer to a question. Read below to see why this is important.

Visual aids:
The DM wrote out descriptions (or used descriptions from magazines, etc.) before hand and reads it aloud. The rule is as soon as someone enters a room, cavern, what have you the DM reads that description. Of course walking down a mundane corridor is not written out; but we could always ask for the description that he will quickly provide off the top of his head.

We used erasable table sized grid maps most of the time; The DM ensured that when drawing on the map he used clear symbols to indicate what was what.
If he has a picture he shows it (frequently does). If he needs to draw it on the map (or has it pre-drawn) he does/shows it.

Questions:
As our individual characters come into view of it we are all given the chance to ask questions that our characters would know the answers to at a glance at the area. So for example the ranger scouting ahead would get the description (read aloud we are good at not meta-gaming) have a chance to ask questions, then he is done. Next PC in same thing…etc. This is outside of that 30 second rule; unless something happens that would result in the roll of initiative – then the questions are indeed contained within that 30 seconds.

Looking around
You can look around the room at any time and ask questions; however that counts against your 30 seconds (including the time it takes the DM to tell you the answer). Also he may force a spot check if your engaged or otherwise distracted at the time.

Follow up:
This is followed by a “any more questions” from the DM. If the answer is “no” then off we go. If we missed something then to bad; he read his description, gave everyone (as they entered the place) a chance to ask questions.

Plus:
-No talking while the DM talks; if ya do and miss something to bad.

-If there ends up being a conflict; majority rules. If it is a tie the DM gets

-Everything said was in-game unless stated being out of game

 

[Dingleberry]

At my table (though I've never expressed it to my players as such), there's a difference between a misunderstanding and a missed understanding. If a player legitimately misinterprets something I've said, I'll do what I can (within reason) to fix it. If a player simply wasn't listening and didn't ask for clarification before declaring an action, tough noogies.

 

[frankthedm]

Allow no takebacks & enforce lethal concequences. Next time they will pay attention.

 

[babomb]

So the PCs were in a dungeon and came to a pit. One fell in and climbed up the far side, but most of them made it across safely. They were promptly attacked by a baby blue dragon. The rogue was the only one who hadn't crossed yet, and he stayed on that side, shooting his crossbow or throwing daggers.

At the end of the fight, all of the PCs but the rogue were very low on HP, to the point that they didn't want to risk jumping back across. (I guess the cleric had run out of spells? They were only second-level.) Anyway, they ask the rogue to go to town and find something to lay across the pit (a log, say) as a makeshift bridge.

The session was derailed for half an hour as the rogue's player insisted that his character did NOT know how to build a bridge. (He apparently thought he was expected to build a suspension bridge or somesuch thing.)