Middle Earth Skin-Changers

[John Q. Mayhem]

I say to go with the template idea--but remove inappropriate traits. It fits Tolkein's model best.

Making it a character class is 100% opposite to Tolkein's own work.

I agree, especially as it's fairly obvious that Beorn is the reason D&D werebears are always LG. But that "Beorn was a Man" thing might get in the way, as lycanthropes change type.

 

[Dogbrain]

I agree, especially as it's fairly obvious that Beorn is the reason D&D werebears are always LG. But that "Beorn was a Man" thing might get in the way, as lycanthropes change type.

Beorn is not a lycanthrope. He is not a werebear as D&D uses the term. He may have similar abilities, but he is not identical.

He is not portrayed as having any special immunities. His ability is not portrayed as tied to the cycles of the moon. His ability cannot be infective. He is not a "lycanthrope" in the D&D sense of the term.

1. Start with the "werebear" template.
2. Delete involuntary change during the full moon.
3. Delete alignment change.
4. Delete the "hybrid" form.
5. Delete "shapechanger subtype".
6. Delete damage reduction.
7. Delete curse of lycanthropy

 

[Rackhir]

The thing that bothers me about this sort of "advantage" is that it tends to be extremely powerful when starting out and essentially useless by the time the character has gained a substantial number of levels. It's like getting to start with a +1 weapon that's a "family" heirloom, it totally rocks until you find +2 weapons and then it's "Who cares?"

The class idea does at least have the advantage that at the benefits will increase as the character levels. I'm not familiar with the template so I can't comment on that, but unless it's benefits increase with level it still has the basic flaw.

Are you creating this for characters to use or is it something for your NPCs? That would affect how I went about doing something like this. With PCs you need to worry much more about game balance. For NPCs it's not so important.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Beorn is not a lycanthrope. He is not a werebear as D&D uses the term. He may have similar abilities, but he is not identical.

He is not portrayed as having any special immunities. His ability is not portrayed as tied to the cycles of the moon. His ability cannot be infective. He is not a "lycanthrope" in the D&D sense of the term.

I already know this, as I eat, drink, and breathe Tolkien. However, this does not contradict my statement that Beorn is the reason that D&D werebears are lawful good. Beorn=inspiration for LG werebears != Beorn=LG werebear. You are reading things into my comments that I did not intend to say.

 

[ErickArnell]

Rackhir, I really did start out the idea to be able to let PCs play someone like Beorn. Like I said up there, I can play all the homebrew worlds I want, but I need to get more bodies in the seats (it's hard to find a lot of home-grown gamers in rural central Virginia, especially as a recent transplant).

You have all made good points. I want to keep it as close as I can to Tolkien, but also make it something that doesn't break the game. Humans are hard because I am having to balance the Numenoreans (Dunedain, same thing, I just learned) with the others. This gives "normal" short-lived Men a chance to stick it to the cocky guys from Westernesse.

I'm thinking that I will let PC characters take a "latent skin-changer" feat at first level (and only at first level) that gives some benefit, like an ability score increase (no half-orc PCs in my campaign makes for no PC races with a STR bonus) or something like scent or low-light vision.

Then later on, maybe when the PCs reach the character level equivalent to the normal animal's hit dice, they would be eligible for the full skin-changer benefits with another feat. This seems to fit with the idea that not all of the Beornings could change their shape, even if they were in the same bloodline.

In order to make it so that it isn't just great earlier on but not so neat at higher levels, I'm making it so that the BAB and HP in the characters animal form will be the same as in the human (or Man) form. I may even figure out a way to increase size over time (using advancement rules in the MM, maybe), to scale up the physical attacks as the characters progress.

Just thinking out loud right now, but I think with the suggestions I got here I may be able to work out something good.

Example latent skin-changer feats:

Wolverine skin-changers get one rage per day
Boar skin-changers get CON bonus
Eagle skin-changers get WIS bonus (?)

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'd actually stick with the WoT method and not give any benefit for the latent skin changer feat.

Effectively you say that "skin changing is so good it costs two feats to get it", which seems fair, and that anyone who wants to be a skin changer has to put up with apparently "wasting" a feat at 1st level.

That's the way I'd handle it.

Cheers

 

[Dogbrain]

I already know this, as I eat, drink, and breathe Tolkien. However, this does not contradict my statement that Beorn is the reason that D&D werebears are lawful good. Beorn=inspiration for LG werebears != Beorn=LG werebear. You are reading things into my comments that I did not intend to say.

You don't seem to read your own comments. You also wrote the following:

But that "Beorn was a Man" thing might get in the way, as lycanthropes change type.

So I showed you how to use the template as a starting point to produce a more Beorn-like template.


So, given what little is known about Beorn, perhaps he is something like this:

Human (Skin-Changer Template)
Skin Changer (Bear) level 8
Sorcerer level 5

Or maybe higher levels.

 

[Dogbrain]

Make Dunedain a template with built-in equivalent levels. Perhaps then things like "Ranger" (Tolkein sense, not the stupid "woodland ninja" 3.5D&D sense) could be a class restricted to this template.

 

[ErickArnell]

I read a fantasy book once that almost read like a philosophy text; everything was about balance, whether it was running in a race or running a kingdom. Wish I could remember the name.

Building a setting seems to be the same way.

I'm going to work on these issues some more, as balancing races seems to be fundamental enough that I need to get it right first. And it is not easy. If I take away the Elf CON penalty and take away the dwarf dodge bonus vs. giants (both don't fit in my view of Middle Earth), how does that affect everyone else?

Dunedain vs. generic Man, Noldor vs Sindar, sure I can work these out with templates, but it sure ain't easy.

Being DM is a thankless task anyway. I have had dozens of great character ideas in the past few weeks as I've put this together, and I'll never get to play any of them because no one else wants to DM.

Guess I'll go eat worms.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

You don't seem to read your own comments. You also wrote the following:



So I showed you how to use the template as a starting point to produce a more Beorn-like template.

Sorry. What I meant by "Beorn was a Man" getting in the way was that it would not allow the use of the straight template. Should have made that more clear.