Midnight: My players wonder--What's the point?

[Henry]

Ashrem and Wil,

Thanks for the responses. Putting in a "Star Wars Rebellion" context helps me see the setting as much more approachable. It seemed like for a while that all its supporters could talk about was how unkillable the overlord was, and how good will never win -- EVER. It's not a true statement: good could win, often spectacularly, its just that the goal of eradicating evil for all time is too big of a goal for one campaign to realistically handle.

However, I do have to ask:

Free a city and set it up as a bastion of resistance. Pehaps the Shadow's "puppet ruler" is now controlled by the good guys.

Does anyone else, having heard people talking about the Shadow in Midnight, instantly have Dead Gentlemen Productions "The Gamers" flashbacks?

GM:"These lands are controlled by... The Shadow."
Player 1: "The shadow!"
Player 2: "The SHADOW??!!"
Player 3: "The Shadow."

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

OT for a sec...
Ashrem: the Netbook is FANTASTIC! Not only is the writing and rules quality great, it looks like FFG was cool enough to let ya'll make it LOOK pretty. This is one netbook that will actually see use from me!
-Rugger
"I LoveMidnight!"

Glad you like it! Remember, this is just Vol 1. We are already planning what will be in Vol 4!

Be sure to check out www.againsttheshadow.org

FFG has been wonderful to work with. They were VERY generous with their baby.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Still haven't got to see The Gamers.

 

[Camarath]

I am not sure how much this will add to the discussion it may be a bit OT. But I love Midnight and felt like adding some info on my current campaign which I am having a lot of fun with and which borrows quite a bit from Midnight.

I am currently playing in a homebrew (a very heavily modified RttToEE). In my world the Mind Flayers have created a gaint brain pool called the Overmind and it has gained divine status and created an barrier (Umbra) which cuts of the world form direct diety influence and traps the souls of the dead which the Overmind eventually consumes. The Mind Flayers are currently splintering and wearing down the suface world which is primarily composed of city states at this point which rely heavily on mercenaries by promoting infighting and treachery. The party is currently working for the a mysterious group (Mind Flayers) to stop the resurrection of the now mad Lord of the Morning (a god)who in the ages past hurled himself through the Umbra fractuing his celestial body and his mind. In my campaign the pysical manifestations of the Gods are celestial bodies much like stars. The Lord of the Morning believies that the only way to save the world is to bring the dawn of a new day. This would mean a fiery cataclysm which would destory all life. The players again do not know this nor do the Mind Flayers. The Mind Flayers fear the rise of any God within the Umbra but do not know his plans and the party was only hired to "clean" out a disruptive cult. Some members of the party know some of what's going on but most don't. But on the whole the player are enjoying the bleak desperate environment because they don't know that no matter what they do the Mind Flayers will win and the Overmind will consume thier souls. I also have a habit of putting monsters and situations in to the game that if met with direct combat would lead to the death of the party and the players know this so try not to run into the gaping jaws of death if they can help it. The party has many hopes and dreams; wealth, revenge, duty, power, fame but saving the world is not one of them. Though they may end up doing so.

 

[Estlor]

Midnight forces you to change up your campaign mindset. It's no longer about glory and bringing wide paths of territory under your control.

In Midnight characters have to be a bit more intelligent and crafty. Attacking orcs is okay, but the best thing to do is pull it off when they have low numbers and you can wipe them out with no one left to explain what happens. You try to frustrate and harass the forces of The Shadow, not so much with the intent of beating them back to the frozen north but just to slow them down. You're buying time for the greater network of resistance throughout Eredane to work against The Shadow in increments. If it helps the dwarves last another day or lets the elves keep another two feet of woodland territory, you've succeeded. The point isn't winning, it's being the biggest pain in the ptookus you can be at every turn.

 

[Gothmog]

I think a lot of people who are saying Midnight is bleak and hopeless aren't really getting the point. A hero is someone who stands against the odds, for what he knows is right, and is willing to pay the price for his beliefs and actions. Standard D&D characters aren't heroes- they are looting thugs who often have the backing of good-aligned churches/governments/etc behind them for support. Characters in Midnight truly are heroes on their own, and with the odds truly stacked against them. The point isn't to kill Izrador, or to amass riches and magic, but to give others (the general populace) hope. In short, the characters are supposed to be the folk heroes that give others hope for a better future. While Izrador is too powerful to outright destroy, he and his forces rely on terror, isolation, and strongarm tactics to rule. If the people are no longer afraid, and they aren't isolated, suddenly Izrador's forces are in a heap of trouble.

Although I haven't started my Midnight game yet, my plans involve having the heroes slowly build up a network of powerful allies, re-establishing communication between the dwarves and elves, acting as role-models to the people, and catching some of Izrador's forces in a nasty trap. This suddenly puts the baddies on the defensive, and shows the people that while Izrador himself might not be subject to harm, his forces and powerbase are. True, Izrador is likely to retaliate in force, but at this point the game would be more about outmaneuvering Izrador than crushing his forces. I'll also present the option to the players late in the campaign to basically completely seal the world off from all sources of magic- this putting Izrador into a catatonic state. Of course, all magic in the world would die as well, and the fey races would fade into myth. Is this a sacrifice the characters would be willing to make? I'm not sure, but its an interesting possibility.

 

[Crothian]

I don't think one really has to kill the god even. In the book it talks of temples and how they spread the influnce of him. I thought a great campiagn idea would be going around and trying to find these and destroying the temples. One could also seek out the supernatural creatures and kill the evil ones and ally with the not so evil ones. I have a one shot idea were a creature ius discovered and the PCs have to get to it before the evils guys do. That could easily be the focus of a much bigger story arc.

I think there is lots of Hope in Midnight. Sure things are very very bad, but that's when the gambles come in. PCs taking huge risks at suicide like missions that woulds have great gains. THe PCs can actaually set out do the impossible.

 

[Desdichado]

I've said this before, but what the hey -- much has been made of the similarity between Lord of the Rings and Midnight but I think a closer comparison, that is more resonant between the two settings is the end of the First Age of Beleriand with Midnight. Think about it; Nargathrond was sacked, Doriath was ravaged (by allies, no less) Gondolin was betrayed and destroyed, the Edain were living in slavery to Easterlings in horrible conditions, the "gods" (Valar) had cut themselves off from the world and refused to intervene directly. Morgoth ruled the world much as Izrador does in Midnight. However, despite these extremly similar settings, few seem to have made the leap that casting the PCs in the role of Earendil; the messenger who must seek out the gods and convince them to return and intervene directly in behalf of the mortal races.

This doesn't necessarily have to ruin the setting either, as some imply (although it does tend to put an end to that particular campaign once you do this). After all, even Tolkien had themes of sacrifice and loss -- Beleriand was all but destroyed and sank under the sea with the exception of Lindon. The Golden Age of the elves was over with forever, and their long slow decline was immediately noticible from that point on. In addition, the seeds were sown for the destruction of Numenor and the sundering of Elves and Men all in one blow.

As I said earlier, Tolkien is good source material thematically for this kind of game. Hope is never completely gone, and you persevere even when you can't see it. Of course, there's always a price to be paid for victory as well...

 

[DaveMage]

I look at a setting like Midnight and see the opportunity for the ultimate Epic game.

Sure, it starts out seeming bleak, and the only victories you get are small ones. This goes on for over 20 experience levels. However, as characters reach epic levels, they can then find a way to defeat Izrador.

***

Or you could just have Elminster show up and beat him...

*ducks*

 

[Wraith Form]

Free a city and set it up as a bastion of resistance. Pehaps the Shadow's "puppet ruler" is now controlled by the good guys.

Yes. To use an example, this is much like the "mirror universe" version of Wormtongue and Theodin in LotR: Two Towers....the players get to mind-control (or charm, or whatever) a bad-guy ruler and be "hidden powers (for good) behind the throne" as a refreshing change of pace!

{As compared to the utterly cliche "bad guy mind-controlling the good ruler and being the hidden evil behind the throne" thing.}

Good call, Ashrem! Too bad we live so far apart--I'd love to be a player in your Midnight game! (Or Wil's, too, for that matter!)