D&D (2024) Mike Mearls “…it’s now obvious how to live without Bonus Actions”' And 6th Edition When Players Ask

With all due respect to Mike Mearls, he is wrong. The action economy in 5th Edition is beautifully designed, and I wouldn't change a thing about it.

 

[Hussar]

I would never explain that to a casual player because it's wrong.

I get my reaction back on my turn. If I cast a spell and it gets countered I can use my reaction to cast counter spell.

But, it does get wonkier.

On PC's Turn, PC casts a bonus spell and the Opponent casts Counterspell. The PC uses his reaction to cast Counterspell of the Counterspell. PC's turn ends. Opponent then casts spell on PC, but, PC cannot counter spell because he's already used his reaction on his turn and it won't refresh until his next turn. It can be a bit confusing.

To be fair though, this is a pretty rare thing to come up.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

But, it does get wonkier.

On PC's Turn, PC casts a bonus spell and the Opponent casts Counterspell. The PC uses his reaction to cast Counterspell of the Counterspell. PC's turn ends. Opponent then casts spell on PC, but, PC cannot counter spell because he's already used his reaction on his turn and it won't refresh until his next turn. It can be a bit confusing.

To be fair though, this is a pretty rare thing to come up.

You can't do the part in bold. It's illegal to cast another spell on the turn when you've cast a bonus action spell. Dausuul is correct.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

It's possible to live without bonus actions, sure. It's also possible to live without playing D&D. Doesn't mean you want to do either.

 

[Henry]

I'm still not sure why people are getting tripped up on bonus actions, or these anecdotes with people accidentally tyrong to take too many bonus actions - you get ONE. If it says, "bonus action" you can't do another one your turn.

One thing that makes me worry about the way Mike Mearls words the removal of bonus actions is where he says that they can be worded into other abilities. It makes me worry about re-introducing the 4th Edition "special power" problem, where if I have this special ability I can do this special thing -but what if I don't have the special ability? Can I no longer trip somebody because I don't have the "trip somebody" power? What about two-weapon attacks, if I don't have the "dual wield" ability? I'd have to see it in play, but I'm afraid replacing ONE variable thing with 1,092 hard-coded things would lead to a much more complicated game than intended. It would be like in a computer program removing the variable reference for a file name and replacing with hard-coded instances of that file name in every location, leaving a bigger mess when trying to remove complexity.

 

[Zardnaar]

You can't do the part in bold. It's illegal to cast another spell on the turn when you've cast a bonus action spell. Dausuul is correct.

Both wrong. If both spellls were cantrips you can counterspell IIRC. Now I have to reread the phb as I could be wrong.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Both wrong. If both spellls were cantrips you can counterspell IIRC. Now I have to reread the phb as I could be wrong.

You might want to check the rules BEFORE loudly proclaiming other people to be wrong. In this case, you're wrong.

A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

Counterspell is not a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action, therefore it cannot be cast in the same turn as a bonus action spell.

 

[Zardnaar]

You might want to check the rules BEFORE loudly proclaiming other people to be wrong. In this case, you're wrong.



Counterspell is not a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action, therefore it cannot be cast in the same turn as a bonus action spell.

Counterspell is not cast on your turn though. Same round maybe thats why I said I wanted to check the rules.

 

[schnee]

Fine. Weasel out of it.

And personally I am not attached to the bonus action. I'm just not willing to get rid of it, just for the sake of getting rid of it. His current suggestion of "Just make a bunch if individual actions" doesn't sound like a good solution to me. Instead of learning a couple general rules, you will need to learn potentially hundreds of separate special rules, some with their own little corner case.

Here are so other suggestions.

1. Don't get rid of bonus actions, but reduce where not needed. Two weapon fighting seems like one of the biggest offenders*.
2. Make a clear list of actions and bonus actions. Include a chart in the book. Make space on the character sheet to list the action type.
3. Eliminate special exceptions. Do you really need to limit casters to a cantrip with a bonus action spell? I have yet to see a really broken combo. And it will just burn you spell slots faster.

*The real problem with removing the bonus action from two weapon fighting is that they added a style and a feat to boost it up to make up for the fact that it requires a bonus action. Now if you take it away it is unbalanced. If you just tone down the power of the style and feat you can get rid of the bonus action requirement and it is fine.

Yeah, those are all legit criticisms / considerations.

Two weapon fighting has never really worked well enough from what I can tell (I missed 4E so take that for what it's worth) so if this forces a re-write of that as well it'd be worth it.

But, #2... a clear chart? In one place? With organized information in one place? This is D&D we're talking about. It's not the game unless you have to string together a chain of five page flips and two glossary cross-references to understand what's actually going on.

 

[Desh-Rae-Halra]

Well, he did say we would get a 6th edition when GMs and players ask for it.....maybe Mearls should walk that back a little

 

[Engstrom]

I've only just got back into D&D after 20+ years away. I splurged on the 5e PHB, DMG and MM. By doing this I can GUARANTEE you there will be a new version within a year