D&D General Mike Mearls' blog post about RPG generations

[TiQuinn]

Mearls said the first generation was 1974-1983.

Gen X is born 1965-1980. Anyhow, I started playing in 1982, with AD&D. Most gamers I played with from my class or about +/-5 started with AD&D 1e, which was 1978 to 1988.

That Mearls first generation is OD&D and AD&D overlap, and cuts off AD&D 1e in 1983 instead of 1988, is a bit odd. Apparently the publication of Ravenloft matters more in his view than editions.

Well, I think he’s referring to the Hickman Revolution which I think started with Pharoah and was also present in Ravenloft and signaled a shift from site based adventures to more story based adventures, I.E. PCs should have an objective beyond simply exploring the dungeon for loot. But then, if that’s what Mearls means - he can actually say that. There’s no reason to be vague unless he’s just pulling stuff out of the air. People have been writing about the shifts in TTRPGs for years.

 

[cbwjm]

Mearls said the first generation was 1974-1983.

Gen X is born 1965-1980. Anyhow, I started playing in 1982, with AD&D. Most gamers I played with from my class or about +/-5 started with AD&D 1e, which was 1978 to 1988.

That Mearls first generation is OD&D and AD&D overlap, and cuts off AD&D 1e in 1983 instead of 1988, is a bit odd. Apparently the publication of Ravenloft matters more in his view than editions.

That's still a good chunk of us Gen Xrs that missed 1e, I'd say anyone born in the 70s would have had a good chance to miss 1e or perhaps only catch the tail end of it when the change was happening. I didn't even know anything about 1e until late 90s with the proliferation of the internet, but then I was born in 79 and likely have more in common with millenials (I'm in that part of Gen X that often gets grouped into Xennial).

 

[haakon1]

No, I mean in the design of 5E and how the existing playerbase at the time embraced 5E upon release. The designers and fans at the time rejected 4E, which lead to 5E being widely accepted and adopted by the tiny RPG community circa 2014. Critical Role started streaming in March 2015 and Stranger Things started in July 2016. It's after those dropped that 5E really exploded beyond the confines of the existing RPG community.

…

If we could peak into alternate dimensions we could know, short of that...not so much. The alternative is that CR pushes PF to be as dominant as D&D is now.

And then Paizo buys D&D from WotC.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Sure. Depending on how one runs their game, or the expectations they have going in, it can go either way.

I think the more salient points are
(1) while too many rules almost guarantees that a game will be harder to GM, "too many" is a vague and subjective thing, and
(2) this doesn't guarantee that very few rules make it easier

As I have unfortunately had to say a great many times in this brave new world of "rulings, not rules", "Less is more" is a lovely battlecry and a terrible guideline. In order for "less is more" to actually mean more, it means you need to actually DO MORE with the fewer things you have. Otherwise, it's just less.

 

[Scribe]

I think the more salient points are
(1) while too many rules almost guarantees that a game will be harder to GM, "too many" is a vague and subjective thing, and
(2) this doesn't guarantee that very few rules make it easier

As I have unfortunately had to say a great many times in this brave new world of "rulings, not rules", "Less is more" is a lovely battlecry and a terrible guideline. In order for "less is more" to actually mean more, it means you need to actually DO MORE with the fewer things you have. Otherwise, it's just less.

Yes, as I mentioned, depending on how you run your games, set your expectations, and so on.

Or one can contemplate the delightful interaction of a light crossbow and nick, or the joy of one level dips and feats and spells until the end of days.

Either way.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Not every plant is edible.

Nor is every edible plant desirable.

 

[Aldarc]

The Six Cultures of Play is a better model than GNS or whatever Mearls is putting out there but it's focused on the same kind of classification as GNS and thus subject to many of its same flaws. For my money the 8 Aesthetics of Play is the best model out there because it's about classifying players rather than styles of games or some nebulous concepts of semi-deliberate "movements".

Not sure what to tell you other than GNS is technically about classifying the play agendas of players.

I do agree that the 8 Aesthetics of Play is better but it's aimed after the same idea as GNS: what are players hoping to get out of playing this game? However, GNS was modifying the preexisting model of GDS.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the more salient points are
(1) while too many rules almost guarantees that a game will be harder to GM, "too many" is a vague and subjective thing, and
(2) this doesn't guarantee that very few rules make it easier

Many rules means the DM has to learn a lot.

Few rules means the DM has to be more in sync with the players.

Knowing a lot of rules (You can just feet equal to your STR score)
Vs
Knowing your players (You and your player must have similar ideas of how far you can jump)

A lot of the rules heavy games were both of DMs and Players having different ideas of what's allowed and not wanting to constantly take table time in negotiations.

Grappling and Stealth are common ones because both IRL are complex. In rules light games, you must negotiate how they work. In rules heavy games, you have to know the rule.

 

[Mannahnin]

Don't make me smack you with my Nirvana-branded cane.

Definitely not! My 33 year old "circles of hell" Nirvana t-shirt I wear to sleep in sometimes is far too threadbare to offer much padding.

Mearls said the first generation was 1974-1983.

Gen X is born 1965-1980. Anyhow, I started playing in 1982, with AD&D. Most gamers I played with from my class or about +/-5 started with AD&D 1e, which was 1978 to 1988.

That Mearls first generation is OD&D and AD&D overlap, and cuts off AD&D 1e in 1983 instead of 1988, is a bit odd. Apparently the publication of Ravenloft matters more in his view than editions.

I think Ravenloft and Dragonlance were definitely a sea change in D&D's design and direction. Most of the material the OSR was originally influenced by is specifically before the publication of both of those as well.

Ja. He clearly seems to be referring to the Hickman Revolution, when TSR's primary design orientation shifted to more heroic arc focused and less treasure-hunting. Culminating in 2E relegating XP for treasure to an optional rule.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Ja. He clearly seems to be referring to the Hickman Revolution, when TSR's primary design orientation shifted to more heroic arc focused and less treasure-hunting. Culminating in 2E relegating XP for treasure to an optional rule.

I think that 1983 is probably the best year to "cut off" the original period of D&D, and also marks the end of the (first?) Golden Age of D&D for several reasons.

The following happened in 1983-
1. Gygax left for Hollywood and no longer was very involved in day-to-day and creative at TSR.

2. The original artists (e.g., Tramp, Sutherland) and the new artists (e.g., Otus, Dee, Willingham, LaForce) defined the aesthetic of D&D through 1983. But in 1982, a certain artist (Elmore) was added ... and his aesthetic along with others that were added (Easley et al.) began to define products. Simply put- you can visually see the difference that occurs.*

3. By 1983, "classic" AD&D was complete. The PHB, MM, DMG, Deities & Demigods, and MM2 were out. The World of Greyhawk was done. All the classic modules were complete...

1978: B1, D1-D3, G1-G3, S1
1979: B2, S2, T1
1980: A1, C1, C2, Q1, S3
(Note- those are all the modules for those years, and all, for various reasons, are considered classics)
1981: A2-A4, B3, U1, X1 (also I1, L1)
1982: B4, I3, S4, U2, WG4 (DON'T SAY IT!), X2 (Also I2, N1, X3)

1983: This marked the transition year, with the release of old Gygax material (EX1 and EX2) as well as Ravenloft (I6) among others.

*You can see the changeover occuring in1983, with the cover of the MM2, which is the first hardcover AD&D book that you could look at and say, "Um, one of these things is not like the others." Then, of course, there was the release of Legends & Lore. So 1983 definitely marked the last year.

4. By 1983, you had the Moldvay/Cook Basic D&D, but did not have Mentzer BECMI.


I would argue that 1983 was the last year of one period, and you already see a transition. From one art style and aesthetic to another, so the game is visually changing. From one target market to another (marked by the transition from Deities & Demigods to Legends and Lore). And, as pointed out, from play style to another (as shown by the release of EX1 and EX2, which are gonzo OD&D modules to I6, which is a Hickman adventure).

By 1984, with the release of Dragonlance and the complete conversion of the aesthetics, the conversion is pretty much complete.

IMO, YMMV, etc.