WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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I've nver once needed anyone to define a word used in these discussions; and i'm pretty dumb.

People often ask for definitions to common words so that they can tie themselves into knots to get the words to mean what they want. It's tedious.

Game on friends...game on.

Sure, some people do. I just want to know if I'm in the ballpark, or if we are calling a Choose your own Adventure Novel, a game.
 


For me, telling the story afterward, written down or not, is what makes it a story. Like science. Until you write it down (or relate it via oral tradition) you're just messing around.
That's an interesting interpretation to be sure. I honestly mean that, i'm not attempting to be snarky.

In my circles the furtherance of the story is the point of the game. That usually means PCs end up doing amazing things. It also sometimes means that terrible things happen to them. Furthering the story doesn't mean that there is always plot armor. Often times, the armor is for the plot and not the actors.

I do appreciate your passion for the game/story. ;)
A lot of the time these conversations aren't about anything. But I appreciate your willingness to help me understand another point of view.
 


Have you seen or read The Walking Dead? The individuals are very much the focus.
I gave up after the first season because I realized that (a) it was an "anyone can die so there's no point in actually getting too involved in them" show and (b) most of the characters were jerks.

ETA: By "anyone can die" I mean that shows like this tend to treat character death as a ratings grab more than anything. "Oh, the story's getting a bit stale, let's be shocking and kill a character!" I find those type of things very dull.
 


Yup. I'm expecting a more traditional release myself. Gangbusters near launch, then decent year 1 then decline.
given that most people who will switch will probably do so in year one, this is definitely expected. The real question will be whether once the 'upgrade cycle' is over the sales are around the level that 5e had in 2023 and if it can keep the momentum going for another 6 to 8 years the way 2014 did
 

Sure, some people do. I just want to know if I'm in the ballpark, or if we are calling a Choose your own Adventure Novel, a game.
I would say we are not calling a novel a game as the outcome (one of many) is already fixed regardless of what choice you make.
In the context of an RPG the outcome isn't fixed unless that's the type of GM you are dealing with. That's a whole other conversation.
 


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