WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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But did they...?
yes, as far as I can tell...


"[EDIT: The news from Wizards of the Coast specifically used the term "product" (not "book") when describing the new Player's Handbook as the fastest-selling product in D&D history. There's some legalese behind the definition of book."

Everyone else also reported 'product', not 'book'


I assume WotC had a reason for that distinction
 


Why does whether the rulebook is bought in print or digital format matter?
It does only matter in so far as WotC apparently cannot call it the fastest selling book in D&D history.

I would have expected a new core PHB to sell better than the second class expansion for 2014, both as a book and as digital. So either it is not selling as well as it 'should' or there is a strong move towards digital.

EDIT: Also couldnt product mean it sold better than any of their products, including and going beyond just books?
I cannot rule it out, but I assume they would have said so, if it did. To me they used 'product' for a reason, that was not an accident
 
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yes, as far as I can tell...


"[EDIT: The news from Wizards of the Coast specifically used the term "product" (not "book") when describing the new Player's Handbook as the fastest-selling product in D&D history. There's some legalese behind the definition of book."

Everyone else also reported 'product', not 'book'


I assume WotC had a reason for that distinction

Yet, in the transcript from the Hasbro earnings conference call they specifically say "books."
 

It does only matter in so far as WotC apparently cannot call it the fastest selling book in D&D history.
Yeah but at a practical level more copies of the '24 rules are selling faster (regardless of format) than any other.

I would have expected a new core PHB to sell better than the second class expansion for 2014, both as a book and as digital. So either it is not selling as well as it 'should' or there is a strong move towards digital.
Or more people bought physical books direct, or the classification of DnD at Amazon and other outlets skewed the numbers, or... more pointless speculation.
 


Yeah but at a practical level more copies of the '24 rules are selling faster (regardless of format) than any other.
not sure that level is necessarily more practical / relevant. There are plenty people who got a bundle and maybe even a third copy for a VTT

Or more people bought physical books direct, or the classification of DnD at Amazon and other outlets skewed the numbers, or... more pointless speculation.
The statement came from WotC, pretty sure that includes all distribution channels and classifications, this is not about Amazon now having it in the toys category rather than books

If you do not want to speculate then don't. I would prefer for WotC to release meaningful numbers, but until they do we are stuck with what they release. So there is 'product' rather than 'book' and flat revenue for 2024 compared to 2023 when at least I would have expected a bump from a new set of core books, so let's see what 2025 brings.
 
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