WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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It's pretty clear from the context that he wasn't talking about player safety cards and the like. He was talking about danger to the PCs.
I agree.
My interpretation regarding his comment (which shouldn't mean anything to anyone) is that 5e is all about not ruffling feathers. No evil races, no races at all, PCs never die so that players won't be put out, balanced classes etc.
And the irony of the conversation is that now everyone is bothered by his comment.
 

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I agree.
My interpretation regarding his comment (which shouldn't mean anything to anyone) is that 5e is all about not ruffling feathers. No evil races, no races at all, PCs never die so that players won't be put out, balanced classes etc.
And the irony of the conversation is that now everyone is bothered by his comment.
Also if you do manage to have a PC die, being raised is super easy.
 

My interpretation regarding his comment (which shouldn't mean anything to anyone) is that 5e is all about not ruffling feathers. No evil races, no races at all, PCs never die so that players won't be put out, balanced classes etc.

None of which should be at all a shock to anyone at this point who is paying attention in any way at all over the last 5-7 years of development and discourse.

People have been calling out this trend for years (ahem), and people continue to pretend it isnt happening, or that calling it out is somehow a bad thing.
 

None of which should be at all a shock to anyone at this point who is paying attention in any way at all over the last 5-7 years of development and discourse.

People have been calling out this trend for years (ahem), and people continue to pretend it isnt happening, or that calling it out is somehow a bad thing.

Have they? I acknowledge that things change, I'm just not particularly bothered by it one way or another. It's not bad to acknowledge changes and that perhaps the current version doesn't work for you. I just disagree with calling a style of play you don't personally care for time-wasting slop.
 

Have they? I acknowledge that things change, I'm just not particularly bothered by it one way or another. It's not bad to acknowledge changes and that perhaps the current version doesn't work for you. I just disagree with calling a style of play you don't personally care for time-wasting slop.
There's no such thing as bad press. Or so i'm told.
 

Meaning modern gaming is about everyone winning and no one’s feelings getting hurt.
Isn't that what gaming has mostly always been about?

Yeah, TPKs happen, but they're far from the majority of cases. Most of the time, the party defeats the BBEG and everybody wins.

And it's supposed to be a fun social time. Of course you don't want feelings to get hurt, because that's not fun social time.
 

Have they?

Yes. lol

Isn't that what gaming has mostly always been about?

I mean no?

By many many definition's and examples, games are about many things, but some take it seriously, some take it competitively, and some get bent out of shape if there are any kinds of limits or consequences to their actions.

I used to game with couple guys, brothers, in 40K, and if they had a bad turn? They just went to pieces.
 

Isn't that what gaming has mostly always been about?

Yeah, TPKs happen, but they're far from the majority of cases. Most of the time, the party defeats the BBEG and everybody wins.

And it's supposed to be a fun social time. Of course you don't want feelings to get hurt, because that's not fun social time.
I usually DM so for me the fun is smashing the pcs against the shores of misery and despair.

But you’re not wrong. 😎
 


It was a metaphor used by Mearls.
Meaning modern gaming is about everyone winning and no one’s feelings getting hurt.
"Participation trophy" as a metaphor is always used in a derogatory manner. Does anyone dispute that?

All trophies are generally stupid, IMO. They tend to reward the wrong things, and are a bane upon education (don't even get me started on marks and reports cards, and I'm a teacher). If the purpose of education is to help people maximize their potential, trophies are generally counter-productive. And they usually aren't there for the student, they are there for the fans (the family, the people in the bleachers, whatever). There is nothing sadder than an adult with a trophy wall.

Setting that aside, the philosophy of "everyone winning and no one's feelings getting hurt" seems like a pretty good ideal for a TTRPG, specifically, doesn't it? But let's break it down:

"Everyone winning": There is no specific "win state" for most TTRPGs. The point is to work together to create a fun story, and on the way there will be trials and tribulations. I mean, "the friends we made along the way" is a meme expression at this point...but isn't it actually the whole point of these games? To hang out and entertain each other? If not, what is the point? So I would define "winning," in the specific context of TTRPGs as "a game where everyone has a good time and wants to come back for more."

"No one's feelings getting hurt." This just seems like a good design goal for any recreational activity. To me, it implies fairness and treating others with kindness and consideration. What's objectionable here?

Don't we all aspire to run games where everyone feels good about themselves and wants to come back?
 

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