D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Minigiant]

20 combat rounds per long rest is easy.

3-4 rounds of combat and one side runs away.

Repeat 5-7 times.

 

[Zardnaar]

Side note, I find a lot of old school players take this too far in the opposite direction and are way too precious with their spells. If you’re playing optimally, you should be using your last spell slot during the last combat of the day. Taking a long rest with spell slots still left over is a sign you could have cast more spell during the day and probably finished faster and easier.

Well you want some gas in the tank if DM hits you at night.

 

[Zardnaar]

20 combat rounds per long rest is easy.

3-4 rounds of combat and one side runs away.

Repeat 5-7 times.

Or 2-3 rounds and everything is dead.

 

[Charlaquin]

It's wondrously simple. It removes the guess work.

I'm brainstorming if this might work. Rather than the DM throwing needless encounters that don't make sense to get to 6-7 "combats" to drain resources in a day, or guessing what might drain resources, the party knows in advance they won't get that long rest until exactly 20 "meaningful" rounds have passed (this means no shoving the last unarmed goblin down and dodging until you get your 20, or counting attacking sheep as your combat). We might give the DM discretion to count difficult encounters (e.g. a puzzle trap that damages characters) towards this progress. We might also give the DM discretion to give the party 1d4 rounds of credit if the party cleverly avoided a surefire combat so that we don't turn the game into a murderfest (e.g. the party set traps or used terrain or enticed one enemy to attack another to end the encounter before it began).

We could also add in "gritty realism" wherein you get a long rest 1 week after your last long rest, regardless of that 20 round counter (e.g. for groups traveling overland with no threats), and maybe a long rest resets if you gain a level. I'd leave short rests alone.

I'd have concerns at 1st level trying to reach 20 combat rounds, but as already pointed out, 1st level is designed as a beginner level and most 1st level modules I've run or read contemplate getting to 2nd level rather quickly, perhaps with 1-2 short rests.

It would be an interesting experiment!

The 1st level problem could be solved by just saying you can take a long rest when you reach a new level. You should get to level
2 before 20 rounds is over. Probably about 10 rounds. Likewise, you should get to level 3 after another 10 rounds.

 

[bedir than]

That wont fix the problem.

They've turned combat into hit point based attrition since 4E.

Without nasty abilities or immunities critters are just sad sacks of HP.

Greater magic resistance on Raksgasa. Needs to be on more critters.

200 hp critters don't matter if they have bad saves or when martials can do 100+ damage.

This is what we've been running at my tables in nearly a dozen 5e campaigns for several dozen people.
The players feel engaged. They get to use their abilities and fights haven't felt meaningless.

It works.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well you want some gas in the tank if DM hits you at night.

Fair enough

 

[Charlaquin]

20 combat rounds per long rest is easy.

3-4 rounds of combat and one side runs away.

Repeat 5-7 times.

I’m guessing you meant this facetiously, but this is genuinely good advice for running 5e. I mean, knowing that the system expects you to do 6-8 combats of about 3 rounds each every day, it should be easy as a DM to count the rounds in a combat, and after 3, start actively looking for if one side or the other gets the upper-hand, and as soon as that happens, transition out of combat, potentially into a chase if need be.

 

[mamba]

I doubt D&D will want or can move away from the daily attrition model. As it is, it is opt-in as the game will function if the players are not pushed.

I doubt it too, I believe it should

 

[Staffan]

20 rounds of combat is really not that long. Again, 3 rounds should be doable in about 10 minutes, maybe 15 for a slow group, so 20 rounds should be doable in an hour or two, leaving a typical D&D session with an hour or two for exploring the dungeon between those combats and and hour or two of interacting with NPCs in town before and/or after.

10 minutes for a combat seems extremely fast for anything that (a) uses a battle map and (b) is more interesting than "there's an orc in the room and he's guarding a pie." But I understand that that's about the level of sophistication the design of 5e was based around – that's why 5e usually only has like a basic version and a boss version of most humanoids, rather than the 5+ versions most of them had in 4e. I do remember a design diary (or whatever they were calling them) where one of the devs (might have been Mearls) bragged that they were able to get through three fights on their lunch break, which I thought sounded like a bizarre thing about which to brag.

To me, a fight against 4 basic goblins in a non-descript room feels more like a waste of time. Just make a few rolls and the fight is over. There's no challenge in that, it's just a matter of how much damage you'll take in return, and there isn't all that much you can do to affect that. There's a reason a book like Flee, Mortals! made 2 megabucks on Kickstarter.

 

[Charlaquin]

10 minutes for a combat seems extremely fast for anything that (a) uses a battle map and (b) is more interesting than "there's an orc in the room and he's guarding a pie." But I understand that that's about the level of sophistication the design of 5e was based around – that's why 5e usually only has like a basic version and a boss version of most humanoids, rather than the 5+ versions most of them had in 4e. I do remember a design diary (or whatever they were calling them) where one of the devs (might have been Mearls) bragged that they were able to get through three fights on their lunch break, which I thought sounded like a bizarre thing about which to brag.

To me, a fight against 4 basic goblins in a non-descript room feels more like a waste of time. Just make a few rolls and the fight is over. There's no challenge in that, it's just a matter of how much damage you'll take in return, and there isn't all that much you can do to affect that. There's a reason a book like Flee, Mortals! made 2 megabucks on Kickstarter.

I would focus less on the amount of real time it takes and more on the number of rounds it takes. If 10 minutes seems blindingly fast, I get it. I’m currently a player in a game with two players who are over 50 and a DM who has a severe stutter, I know the feeling of rounds taking a long time to resolve. Point being though, I think most players who balk at the idea of 6-8 combats per day are not thinking about those combats as being only 3 rounds. They’re probably thinking of them being at least twice that long.