D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[payn]

This is more like the adventuring party has player characters of different levels. Even then, tighter math makes it easier to figure out how to challenge each of the players.

Wait...you want tight math and level disparities in the party...

Each player of chess has exactly symmetric powers, except for who goes first.

In D&D, it would be like every player is a Warlock with the same choices.

Fair enough. Each piece is not of equal value though, but has advantages and disadvantages in the proper situation. They dont just all do the same thing with different carvings as to their representation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Players will seek out greater challenges. No need to force this.

Not in my experience. Many players are quite passive and prefer to wait for the GM to give them somewhere to go and something to do. I wish I had your experience, but I don't.

Players do want success, however, and power IMO.

 

[Campbell]

That unreliable combat math is exciting because its not predicable across the entire adventure. Adventure day is a marathon not a sprint so obviously it isnt gonna work entirely the way you want an encounters based game to. 5E is trying to give us both what we want, but I suspect neither will ever be entirely satisfied.

TV shows are not games and more importantly they are not games that involve multiple people. While RPGs lean on genre conventions, they also have to produce unpredictable outcomes. Perhaps a storygame where you have better control over the narrative would be more enjoyable?

Not really related to any other point, but the games most people think of as storygames do not give you more control over the narrative. More often than not they snowball out of anyone's control (and that's part of the point).

 

[Yaarel]

Wait...you want tight math and level disparities in the party...

Heh, never! I want all players to have comparably powerful characters. And level up at the same time.

I was only referring to those stories where the two characters are Superman and Jimmy Olsen. For my preference this more like the D&D players trying to keep an NPC alive. (The Cortex system tries to make the disparity work, by making relationships more mechanically important.)

(With regard to Tolkien, I view Gandalf as translating into a D&D Dexterity Paladin. So it is easier for me to see Gandalf and Legolas as defacto the same level. By the way, here too reliable powers, plus the "ritual" for making the rings, and the "ritual" for destroying the ring.)

 

[payn]

Not really related to any other point, but the games most people think of as storygames do not give you more control over the narrative. More often than not they snowball out of anyone's control (and that's part of the point).

A fair point, id say is related as well. Even games we think are less reliant on math and granular sub-systems, are not all that predictable either.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or long rests are recuperating from a long work day and waking up "refreshed" the next day.

Refreshed and completely healed of all damage and conditions?

 

[nevin]

The points is that that different styles of play would assume different amounts of restfulness.

Dungeon Play would only assume starting the dungeon with the resources of a 1 day rest and only being able to do 1 hour rests while down in the dungeon.

Casters would start with all their slots and the Recoveries/Channels. Fights assume all PCs are have at least 1 of the Short Rest feature and either Most of the spell slots in the first X fights. After the Xth encounter, PCs are assumed to be half power.

Wilderness Play assumes only 1 encounter per 12 hours. PCs are assumed to be fully stocked on 1day, 1hour, and 5 minute resources every fight.

Urban Play assumes large gaps between encounters. PCs are assumed to be fully stocked on 1day, 1hour, and 5 minute resources every fight.

War Play assumes assumes no rest. PCs start with all resources: 3 day, 1day, 1 hour, and 5 minute. No rests can be assumed outside of magic pick-ups simulating rest.

and different kinds of play would involve different kinds of magic items. Again. Magic items are far more granular and controllable when adjusting the type of encounter. They can be anything from a bag of holding to carry more supplies to one shot consumble one shot powers, once a day etc all the way to at will power's from the magic items. Magic Items just worked better than some of the solutios to get rid of the Xmas Tree effect. were they messy. Yep. Short rest and long rest jalong with all the xtra powers for 5e classes, basically gave everyone the power of the fully loaded monty haul xmas tree effect without the dm being there to decide if they get it. This is why 5e is easy mode for most players. Most new DM's don't understand 5e requires the encounter be designed for the kind of play you want to have. I use lair actions, mythic actions and all kinds of extra things to make the deadly important combats feel that way. You have too past 5 or 6th level if you want anything but easy mode. Or just send wave after wave of baddies till thier resources are gone and have very long fights. And that's only fun once in a blue moon any more than that it just gets boring for GM and players.

 

[nevin]

Perhaps there are still two kinds of rest, but how long they take is based on what kind of play you're engaging with?

A short rest while on military campaign is a lengthy time because you're binding wounds, attending the sick, assessing supplies (and possibly foraging to replace them), setting up or tearing down shelter, etc. A long rest is very long because you have to build actual defenses, a latrine, a lookout, etc., not just set up tents and the cookout area.

A short rest while in an urban environment is quite different, because you're...doing a very different kind of adventuring.

your doing all that in 5 minutes? I can't properly bind one serious wound in less than 5 minutes.

 

[Minigiant]

The first thing the players would ask is why? Why does my character have variable power?

(I am sure from my posts that it is obvious we lean towards verisimilitude slightly.)

The table chooses if they are doing Adventure, Cinematics, or Gritty

If they choose Adventure, level 1 casters have 2 1st level spells slot and assume 6-8 encounters per adventure day.
If they choose Cinematic, level 1 casters have 1 1st level spells slot and assume 2-4 encounters per adventure day..
If they choose Gritty, level 1 casters have 3 1st level spells slot and assume 8-12 encounters per adventure day.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The table chooses if they are doing Adventure, Cinematics, or Gritty

If they choose Adventure, level 1 casters have 2 1st level spells slot and assume 6-8 encounters per adventure day.
If they choose Cinematic, level 1 casters have 1 1st level spells slot and assume 2-4 encounters per adventure day..
If they choose Gritty, level 1 casters have 3 1st level spells slot and assume 8-12 encounters per adventure day.

Why are we fixated on the day? Why things need to recover daily? This seems to be more cumbersome and awkward way of achieving similar results than can be achieved by varying the rest frequency. You need to individually alter every bloody resource from spells to HP to rages and whatnot. If you vary rest frequency that handles all of it a once with the added benefit that you can have fights on different days to affect each other avoiding among other things the common travel encounter problem.