D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[tetrasodium]

They knew the problem with them.

The reason why nothing was changed was because they found out the issue after they created the books and those books were selling like hotcakes.

They did not want it errata something that was selling so well so they waited and waited and waited and waited and waited and waited and waited and waited until they can find an excuse (50th anniversary) to print out a new version with the correct math.

Agreed. I'm livid about the many years of needing to argue the point of why I need to do/change x &y or whatever with players who are certain wotc would have done something by now if I wasn't pushing badwrongfun when even a freaking UA that spells out the problem in no uncertain terms alongside some variant drop in replacements/bolt on additions would have avoided the angry reactions or at least moderated them down to a reasonable negotiation over subjective desires

 

[Minigiant]

Why are we fixated on the day? Why things need to recover daily? This seems to be more cumbersome and awkward way of achieving similar results than can be achieved by varying the rest frequency. You need to individually alter every bloody resource from spells to HP to rages and whatnot. If you vary rest frequency that handles all of it a once with the added benefit that you can have fights on different days to affect each other avoiding among other things the common travel encounter problem.

We have that now.

The community refuses to embrace rest alternatives variant rules as a whole.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

We have that now.

We actually don't, not in the current edition. It got removed in 5.5.

The community refuses to embrace rest alternatives variant rules as a whole.

So what makes you think that your far more complicated solution would fare any better?

 

[Minigiant]

So what makes you think that your far more complicated solution would fare any better?

Because it's on the character sheet

 

[Parmandur]

Why are we fixated on the day? Why things need to recover daily? This seems to be more cumbersome and awkward way of achieving similar results than can be achieved by varying the rest frequency. You need to individually alter every bloody resource from spells to HP to rages and whatnot. If you vary rest frequency that handles all of it a once with the added benefit that you can have fights on different days to affect each other avoiding among other things the common travel encounter problem.

It's a way of abstracting the assumed gameplay scenario, of a stocked Dungeon being cleared in a single go (as demonstrated bothered where I detailed a given Dungeon from the most recently published book, Dungeon Delves).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because it's on the character sheet

That makes no sense. The group needs to first decide to use more restrictive power variant, just like they need to decide to use more restrictive rests. Many just do not want to do that. Now both cases I think it would help, if the more stingy method was presented as the default and more generous as the option though.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It's a way of abstracting the assumed gameplay scenario, of a stocked Dungeon being cleared in a single go (as demonstrated bothered where I detailed a given Dungeon from the most recently published book, Dungeon Delves).

You can still do it in one go if you want, even if recovery was longer, you just cannot do similar dungeon again the next day.

 

[Parmandur]

You can still do it in one go if you want, even if recovery was longer, you just cannot do similar dungeon again the next day.

Sure.

 

[Minigiant]

That makes no sense. The group needs to first decide to use more restrictive power variant, just like they need to decide to use more restrictive rests. Many just do not want to do that. Now both cases I think it would help, if the more stingy method was presented as the default and more generous as the option though.

It does.

The current D&D Fans want to press reset on their digital character sheet at the session start.

 

[mamba]

I think this gets right to the heart of the matter, and is correct: it is not possible to really provide both experiences in the same ruleset, at least not and fo both tight and challenging.

tight rules do not mean things have to be challenging, it just means they are pretty predictable

5E works fine for telling less combat heavy stories, as long as nobody at the table cares about a tight tactical challenge

6-8 encounters per day does not feel like a combat-light story. If people can ignore that, they can also ignore 3-4 better controlled encounters and either reduce the number or challenge as needed.

I see no upside to loose math, there is nothing you gain from it. Anything you can do with loose math, you can do with tight math, there are however things you can do with tight math that just cannot be done with a loose one. The only ‘question’ is whether tight math is worth the effort, and WotC apparently has an answer.

Ultimately I don’t think it is about tight math for me anyway, but about tradeoffs. If resting is always the strategically best way to go about things, it gets boring.

No idea how tight DS!’s math is, but I like its approach where the characters get stronger from not resting while their HP deplete. This is interesting whether the math is tight or not. It offers a dilemma and a choice. D&D’s approach does not, it is up to each DM to turn it into one (potentially against the interest of their players) or just roll with the punches / frequent rests.

(see again, Critical Role: nearly every fight is a foregone conclusion cakewalk but the players haven't figured that out in a decade of playing).

they are paid actors, their job is to make things exciting to watch. Pretty sure they do know that most fights are cakewalks, they also know that presentation matters if they want a large audience