D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[GobHag]

Instead of trying to bring back attrition, what's the best way to challenge a party that do just want to be at full HP and slots the entire time?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But a Cantrip is just as useful as swinging a sword...ao of they want to contribute something more in the moment than the Fighter, they have to spend a Slot. Hence the important of keeping up the narrative pace, if a challenge is desired.

Being about as effective in combat than a fighter for free is a big deal! In older editions casters could not do this, to do so did cost spell slots.

 

[GobHag]

Being about as effective in combat than a fighter for free is a big deal! In older editions casters could not do this, to do so did cost spell slots.

And I think that sucks naughty word that a wizard can spend spell slots to be as effective as a fighter.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Instead of trying to bring back attrition, what's the best way to challenge a party that do just want to be at full HP and slots the entire time?

You certainly can challenge a party like that. You just need to scale up the encounter difficulty a lot. And we really have no guidance for that, but this is really not the difficult part: it is still perfectly doable. The issue is that once you do this, the game becomes super deadly. Like I have explained a lot of times, in such approach the cost for fight going badly is not that you use your "break the glass in case of emergency" spell slots or that you lost most of your HP. Because none of those matter as you get them back for the next fight. Only cost is someone dying, or once you get revivify (at fifth level) a TPK. I don't understand why people just constantly keep ignoring this.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

And I think that sucks naughty word that a wizard can spend spell slots to be as effective as a fighter.

But now they don't even need to do that!

 

[tetrasodium]

And I think that sucks naughty word that a wizard can spend spell slots to be as effective as a fighter.

Huh? 5e cantrips are unlimited at will powers that don't use spell slots like old school equivalents. All of those magic slings and xbows exited because casters really got a huge benefit from them. They weren't prized without good reason.

Unlimited cantrips are one of the reasons it's difficult for the GM to import old subsystems to fix 5e-isms related to casters. The spells themselves had too much of their power shed into the cantrips for it to avoid causing new problems with those casters. Look up some of the old 3.5 god wizard guides to see a fairly accurate assessment of blaster casters, it was not a particularly kind description

Edit: link to a guide referenced rather than quote because glass Cannon comes up a few times

 

[GobHag]

Huh? 5e cantrips are unlimited at will powers that don't use spell slots like old school equivalents. All of those magic slings and xbows exited because casters really got a huge benefit from them. They weren't prized without good reason.

Unlimited cantrips are one of the reasons it's difficult for the GM to import old subsystems to fix 5e-isms related to casters. The spells themselves had too much of their power shed into the cantrips for it to avoid causing new problems with those casters. Look up some of the old 3.5 god wizard guides to see a fairly accurate assessment of blaster casters, it was not a particularly kind description

Ah I was thinking of 'hitting as hard and taking hits just as well as a fighter'

 

[Parmandur]

Being about as effective in combat than a fighter for free is a big deal! In older editions casters could not do this, to do so did cost spell slots.

Less effective: Fighter gets multi-task and a ton of riders on their Attack action.the Cabtrip contributes, but being a Champion Fighter while the casters are worn out or holding their slots is tremendous fun.

 

[Parmandur]

You certainly can challenge a party like that. You just need to scale up the encounter difficulty a lot. And we really have no guidance for that, but this is really not the difficult part: it is still perfectly doable. The issue is that once you do this, the game becomes super deadly. Like I have explained a lot of times, in such approach the cost for fight going badly is not that you use your "break the glass in case of emergency" spell slots or that you lost most of your HP. Because none of those matter as you get them back for the next fight. Only cost is someone dying, or once you get revivify (at fifth level) a TPK. I don't understand why people just constantly keep ignoring this.

It's less ignoring it, and more just seeing it...working as designed? For a smooth challenge, the full Adventure Day is there. For a lake of challenge, just doing a couple fights is there. For making things really kooky and dicey, a few super deadly encounters are there.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It's less ignoring it, and more just seeing it...working as designed? For a smooth challenge, the full Adventure Day is there. For a lake of challenge, just doing a couple fights is there. For making things really kooky and dicey, a few super deadly encounters are there.

OK, but taking a fifth level or higher party, what is acceptable chances of a TPK for a fight to be challenging? 40%, 20%, 10%?
Because any of these tend to me that a TPK will happen in a few sessions. Is that acceptable to you?