Mind Blank and Telepathic Bond = The Uninformed Barbarian?

[KarinsDad]

Nice how you conveniently ignore my True Strike question . I don't see how you can rationalize True Strike as being an information gatherer, though I'm sure someone here will find the words to do so.

Sorry, missed that sentence.

That one is easy. It gives you information on the character's location, orientation, defense, etc. a split second into the future.

The mechanics of how that works is that it gives a bonus to your attack roll. You are targeting a specific target with that True Strike after all (once you decide who to use it against).

Mind Blank states that it protects against all forms "information gathering by divination spells or effects." This does not mean that it protects against all spells from the Divinition School. IMO, spells that divine (which Mind Blank protects against) don't make up the entire school of spells that together are called the Divinition School.

Ahhh. But, where do you draw the line?

Personally, I think it is easier to rule that all Divination spells fail against the targeted character than try to pick and chose individual words within multiple spell descriptions to try to weasel around it. It is an 8th level Abjuration spell after all.

If True Seeing can defeat the entire school of Illusion, I have no problem with Mind Blank defeating the entire school of Divination.

Note: I do have the FAQ to back me up on this one.

 

[Joker]

From The SRD:

Mind Blank

"The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects."

Divinitions

"Divination spells enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, to predict the future, to find hidden things, and to foil deceptive spells."

True Strike

"You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack."


I don't see how True Strike is a detects emotions or thoughts spell, or is an information gatherer. By the wording it seems more like a future predicter than anything else.

Regardless, this isn't the topic at hand.


Telepathic Bond

"The creatures can communicate telepathically through the bond regardless of language. No special power or influence is established as a result of the bond."

Emphasis mine, obviously .

Nowhere, absolutely nowhere, does it state that Mind Blank blocks conversation, which IMO telepathy is just another form of.

 

[Philip]

SRD with addition:

"The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts."

That is how I think Mind Blank is intended to be read. It's not called Future Blank, or Invisibility Blank or Communication Blank, really.

 

[KarinsDad]

SRD with addition:

"The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts."

That is how I think Mind Blank is intended to be read. It's not called Future Blank, or Invisibility Blank or Communication Blank, really.

It's not called Thought Blank either.

And, how exactly does a divination spell influence emotions or thoughts? That would be an enchantment spell.

You are placing the text from the first sentence onto the end of the second sentence in order to get the interpretation that you want. The first sentence does not indicate all of the things that are stopped, the second sentence adds onto the list. In fact, the first sentence is more of flavor text whereas the second sentence is more of which game mechanics (mind-affecting and divination) are actually affected.

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't see how True Strike is a detects emotions or thoughts spell, or is an information gatherer. By the wording it seems more like a future predicter than anything else.

And a future predictor spell doesn't give you information???

Wish I could not gain future information and still absolutely know tomorrow's Lottery Numbers.

Nowhere, absolutely nowhere, does it state that Mind Blank blocks conversation, which IMO telepathy is just another form of.

You are acting as if conversation is not a form of gathering information.

As humans, we gather probably gather 50% or more of our information through conversation.

Conversation does two things: sends information, receives information, and this spell blocks at least half of this. In fact, according to the FAQ, it blocks the entire thing since it blocks all divination spells.

How do you conveniently drop some forms of "gather information" while leaving other forms?

That is what is confusing about your side of the position. You are segregating divination spells into "information gathering" and "non-information gathering" by some nebulous criteria which is not called out in RAW and when the very definition of Divination spells is to gather information.

 

[Thanee]

If my DM said that my 8th level protection from mind affecting and divination spells Mind Blank spell did not work against See Invisibility (although my 4th level Nondetection might depending on if the save is made), I'd start throwing dice at him.

Heh. Though, in this specific case, I do not even see how the spell would interact with the target. All it does is ignore/negate (for the viewer only) a spell the target happens to carry around... the invisibility I mean, of course.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

And a future predictor spell doesn't give you information???

It does, but not about the target, but the future.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Joker]

And a future predictor spell doesn't give you information???

That wasn't the point of what I said. I quoted the Divinition section to show you that not all divinitions gather information, some actually (I know, go figure) look into the future. Some gather information (which Mind Blank specifically blocks), some look into the future (which Mind Blank says nothing about).

You are acting as if conversation is not a form of gathering information.

As humans, we gather probably gather 50% or more of our information through conversation.

Conversation does two things: sends information, receives information, and this spell blocks at least half of this. In fact, according to the FAQ, it blocks the entire thing since it blocks all divination spells.

How do you conveniently drop some forms of "gather information" while leaving other forms?

That is what is confusing about your side of the position. You are segregating divination spells into "information gathering" and "non-information gathering" by some nebulous criteria which is not called out in RAW and when the very definition of Divination spells is to gather information.

But it is called out in the RAW:

From THE SRD:

"Divination spells enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, to predict the future, to find hidden things, and to foil deceptive spells."

Are you saying that people are not allowed to converse with a creature protected by Mind Blank because they are gathering information?
I'm not conveniently dropping some forms of information gathering. I just don't see True Strike or Telepathic Bond as being information gatherers in the sense that detect thoughts is one because not all divination spells gather information.

 

[Joker]

Looking at someone also gets you information about that person. Are you then saying that a person looking at a creature protected by Mind Blank can't see, smell, hear, feel or taste him because they are gathering information about him? If that's the case, screw the barbarian, give my character this unbeatable (barring dispel) invisibility for a day.

 

[KarinsDad]

Looking at someone also gets you information about that person. Are you then saying that a person looking at a creature protected by Mind Blank can't see, smell, hear, feel or taste him because they are gathering information about him? If that's the case, screw the barbarian, give my character this unbeatable (barring dispel) invisibility for a day.

If he is doing it with a divination spell, then yes, according to RAW and the FAQ it is prevented.

If he is using another mechanism like normal sight, sound, etc. or a different set of spells which are not divination (and not mind-altering), then he gains any information as normal. Just like True Seeing sees through magic, but does not see mundane hiding and such.