Mind Flayers wimpy!?

[kreynolds]

Mind Flayer gets totally stomped by a 10th level Psion...single handed...repeatedly...over and over. To give you an idea of what happened, a couple fellow DMs and myself were gettin' familiar with psionics again, when myself and another decided to run an encounter with a mind flayer.

Now, at first, we were running psionics using the variant rule that removes the psionic/magic transparency. Also, we were treating the Mind Flayer's Mind Blast power as the attack mode, not as described in the MM. The mind flayer got stomped. No chance at all.

Then we added the transparency back in. The mind flayer got stomped. The difference here was that the mind flayer's SR protected him from all the powers that the psion kept throwing at him.

Then I actually used the Mind Blast as it is described in the MM. The mind flayer got stomped, but it wasn't as bad. The single psion almost lost his brain twice, and those are the tactics that the mind flayer had to resort to. He couldn't do anything else but run. Also, had the psion actually had three party members with him, the mind flayer would have fallen almost instantly.

Anybody out there notice this kind of thing in your games or playtesting? Does the Mind Flayer need to be tweaked before plopping one in a psionics campaign? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Stalker0]

What were the conditions of the encounter?

Mind flayers are supposed to be devilishly clever, catching one out in the open you probbly will stomp it. But if it has proper planning, it can be much more powerful.

 

[kreynolds]

Actually, the encounter was right out in the open, with the Mind Flayer winning initiative. Basically, we were just getting familiar with powers, attack modes and defense modes, but I was shocked that the mind flayer was so wimpy.

I don't think they can be that bad in the open and still be a CR 8, but I might be missing something.

 

[Pielorinho]

Keep in mind a mind-flayer's two biggest abilities: plane shift away when things get hairy, and charm monster on as many folks as you can manage. A mind flayer should spend at least fifteen minutes a day renewing the charm person effects on its minions; assuming that 50% of its minions make their save vs. the effect each time it tries, it can still have (I think) 600 minions who will do its bidding.

Let's see the psion take on 600 charmed hill giants .

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

Also, consider what happens if a hill giant (for example) wins initiative against a ninth-level wizard:

Round 1: Hill giant throws rocks at the wizard. Wizard gets badly hurt.
Round 1: Wizard casts charm monster on the hill giant. Wizard has a new best friend.

Does this mean hill giants are too wimpy for their CR?

I think that mind flayers are actually more dangerous against a group containing a psion and a (for example) barbarian than against the psion alone. If there's a barbarian, suddenly the psion is fighting a mind flayer and a barbarian, not just a mind flayer.

They specialize against dumb bricks, and are at their weakest against smarties. Psions, as smarties, are a terrible enemy for a mind flayer to face.

Daniel

 

[kreynolds]

Damnit. I forgot about the slaves. Crapola!

 

[Jeremy]

Mind Flayers are caster creatures, they cannot win arena matches unless their opponent just happens to blow one of their first few saves.

They are really in their element when it is unknown that there is one among the enemy.

While travelling under a mountain, following an underground river, the PC's were attacked by a rag tag force of grimlocks. One here, two there. They dispatched them with practiced ease.

A couple had gone to tell their master of rampaging intruders that were sacking their home.

As the PC's continued they encountered what could be mustered of the grimlocks that were fighters backed up by their mind flayer master. While the PC's only saw a few more grimlocks to be culled, the mind flayer saw opportunities for more powerful pets or at least a delicacy of a snack.

He proceeded to use suggestions (via innate telepathy) and charm monsters from cover of rock and darkness to turn the enemy against each other.

After a couple of rounds the grimlocks were all but destroyed, but two of the party members were trying to kill two of the other party members. With the remaining grimlocks helping out, it looked like the illithid was going to get his snack. Until the tank's darkvision spoiled his day.

But that's when the mind blast took all the surivors and stunned both confused party members and the tank, leaving only the sorcerer.

Hello my beefy entree... One tentacle wrap, two tentacle wrap, three tentacle wrap, four...

Flamestrike, Magic Missile -- oh look, the sorcerer fixed the cleric and the cleric killed me. If only I was simply an astral projection.

Blast those pesky kids.

 

[0-hr]

With at-will Astral Projection, it seems highly unlikely that a human would ever see a mind flayer without an invisible silvery cord stretching away behind them. Sure you can kill that projection easily, but an hour later you are going to have to do it again (and again, and again).

(it is also worth noting that a projection probably isn't worth any xp either)

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Mind Flayers should always have "friends," given their abilities. Also, don't forget the levitate ability, which protects them against melee combat until they get the opportunity to extract a brain without too much opposition. Give the poor shmuck a magical item or two, also, and a couple of potions. Use the surrounding terrain to its advantage. It's supposed to be very cunning, so set up an almost undetectable ambush so it can blast everyone by surprise and send the troops in to clean up. Detect Thoughts should also be able to discern some of the defenses and abilities of its enemies before they attack, giving the Mind Flayer the advantage. Just some thoughts.

 

[kreynolds]

Also, don't forget the levitate ability, which protects them against melee combat until they get the opportunity to extract a brain without too much opposition.

I actually used the levitate ability, but it didn't make a difference. The psion's will save bonus was way to good for the mind flayer to have any chance of using Suggestion or Charm Monster, and the only ranged attack it had was Mind Blast, so it had to stay in range to use it. Besides...the psion had a crossbow, and that forced the Mind Flayer back down.

I think the biggest mistake we made was completely forgetting about their slaves, a theme and not a rule, to balance out the fact that the mind flayer had less to work with. The MM even assumes that a solitary mind flayer is CR 8, and I guess the only way that's possible is if there are some weak-minded tanks in the party.

I'll have to remember that.