Mindbender from Tome And Blood

[Mathew_Freeman]

I'm thinking about creating a character to use in a Planescape. He's going to be based around being able to influence other people, ie lots of charm/suggestion magic. Probably a wizard, but possibly a bard - not sure yet.

My specific question is about the 3.0 Mindbender PrC from Tome and Blood. It grants several useful abilities, but all of them have fixed DC which I can imagine are going to become increasingly annoying. Is there a decent mechanic for replacing these fixed DC's with DC's based on the character's ability score?

Example:

Suggestion (Su): At 2nd level, the midnbender can influence the actions of a living creature of size Large or smaller twice a day. Also called 'pushing', this is a supernatural, mind affecting ability that suggests a course of action (limited to a sentence or two). A target within 100 feet must succeed at a Will save (DC 17) to resist the suggestion. The effect lasts until the target accomplishes what is was asked to do or after six hours, whichever occours first. It is otherwise identical to the suggestion spell.

My best guess would be to replace the DC 17 save with a save DC of 10 + 3 (level of suggestion) + relevant ability modifier. This may of course weaken the ability in the short term, but improve it in the long term.

Other, later abilities mimic dominate, mass charm person and so forth. I'd just rather that the abilities depended on my characters abilities rather than having a fixed DC.

And as a final note, would feats such as Spell Focus (Enchantment) apply to these abilities?

 

[gfunk]

Well, before I make my suggestions, let me preface them with a few comments:

• Mindbenders are a tough class to qualify for and, realistically, only Wizards can do it.
• They do not receive full spell progression.
• There abilities are supernatural, rather than spell-like, so spell focus should not apply.
• Wizards will always have Int as their highest stat, and Cha will usually not be terribly high.

So, I suggest making the DC 10 + level of mindbender + Cha modifier.

You can increase it with the ability focus feat from Savage Species which does allow you to increase the DC of supernatural abilities. Furthermore, these abilities all bypass SR, which is very nice.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Well, before I make my suggestions, let me preface them with a few comments:

• Mindbenders are a tough class to qualify for and, realistically, only Wizards can do it.
• They do not receive full spell progression.
• There abilities are supernatural, rather than spell-like, so spell focus should not apply.
• Wizards will always have Int as their highest stat, and Cha will usually not be terribly high.

So, I suggest making the DC 10 + level of mindbender + Cha modifier.

You can increase it with the ability focus feat from Savage Species which does allow you to increase the DC of supernatural abilities. Furthermore, these abilities all bypass SR, which is very nice.

Hmmm, looking through the prereqs again I'm more convinced than ever that a Bard could do well here.

Prereqs: Bluff 4 ranks, Diplomacy 4 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Leadership, Ability to cast arcane spells of 3rd level or higher.

Seems like a Bard would work well. The game is RP heavy, combat minimal, and I'm looking for something interesting that'll be fun to play. I'm not at all worried about the spellcasting loss, in fact I was looking for a PrC that had that to make sure I had some interesting other abilities to make up for it.

I like your suggestion of 10 + Mindbender level + Cha modifier, that'd certainly make sure that the character improves over time but shouldn't make things too nasty. Although if I do play a Bard it'll make things easier, given a Bard's reliance on Cha. Hey hum, it should be fun. I'll refer this thread to my DM in a while.

 

[gfunk]

<slaps own head in stupidity>

Of course, the Bard! Actually, that would make the PrC quite balanced I think -- I agree with you.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

<slaps own head in stupidity>

Of course, the Bard! Actually, that would make the PrC quite balanced I think -- I agree with you.

You don't need to slap your own head, I'm sure several other people would be glad to do it for you.

Yeah, I'm going to put together a Bard based around this idea, see how it comes out. I'll probably post it up here on ENWorld somewhere.

Thanks for your suggestion, now I have to try and get it past the DM!

 

[simmo]

I'll have a read through the PrC tonight to see what the MindBender class involves. I agree with gfunk's suggestion of how to sort out the DC issue and a Bard seems well suited to the PrC.

Check out the various Planar races in on Planewalker.com in "Chapter 2" if you want to play something different to a Prime race (http://www.planewalker.com/index.php?secID=14&subID=15). Thanks,

Simson

 

[El Ravager]

I wasn't invovled in this particular campaign, but a player in my gaming group played a Bard that went into Mindbender very successfully. It seemed to be a good combination and gave the DM a few headaches.

======
El Rav

 

[evileeyore]

Well, before I make my suggestions, let me preface them with a few comments:

• Mindbenders are a tough class to qualify for and, realistically, only Wizards can do it.
• They do not receive full spell progression.
• There abilities are supernatural, rather than spell-like, so spell focus should not apply.
• Wizards will always have Int as their highest stat, and Cha will usually not be terribly high.

So, I suggest making the DC 10 + level of mindbender + Cha modifier.

Ummm, my Sorceror is looking at MindBender and at 12th I qualify easily* (I qualified long ago, I just had other things I wanted to do).

They (minbenders) only lose one or two levels of spell progression, which is okay for the abilities they pick up.

I agree with the rest, espescially the Cha adding to DC's

*Okay so I am a Sorc 4/ Cleric 3/ MystThe 2/Court 2/Contemplative 1.... What I have a rocking Diplomacy skill (about to get bigger...).

TTFN--EvilE