Miniatures Handbook

[Gez]

I, for one, am happy with the new class concepts. Warmage, better as a PrC? Not exactly. It covers an archetype that would, otherwise, require to be fighter/sorcerer/prestige class. Expending slightly the range of base classes allow to prune greatly the range of prestige classes. It's all good.

Besides, it's easiest to create single-classed characters than multiclassed ones -- and by definition, a prestige-classed character is multiclassed. This is nearly irrelevant for player characters, but for NPCs, which must be made a-dime-a-dozen, it's great to need less preparation time.

 

[Caliber]

Good points indeed, Gez. I'll have to ponder on the NPC vs. PC thing a bit.

Hmm.

 

[johnsemlak]

Is anybody using the Random Dungeon game at the end? How is it?

 

[Psion]

I find all of the new core classes somewhat unjustified, unless you happen to already have a campaign specific concept that fits them. YMMV.

I find the favored soul too strong compared to the existing core classes, the healer and the warmage too weak, and the marshal well... just wierd.

 

[Psion]

I, for one, am happy with the new class concepts. Warmage, better as a PrC? Not exactly. It covers an archetype that would, otherwise, require to be fighter/sorcerer/prestige class. Expending slightly the range of base classes allow to prune greatly the range of prestige classes.

In the case of the classes presented in this book, I disagree. It seems to me that each core class only prunes one prestige class concept like it. Core classes should be general, but it seems to me that these are not.

 

[diaglo]

So what are the general thoughts on the book?

PoS.

and i should know. i am the King of PooP.

buy Cry Havoc by Skip Williams instead

 

[MerricB]

I find the favored soul too strong compared to the existing core classes, the healer and the warmage too weak, and the marshal well... just wierd.

Healer is a NPC class as written. It's a really, really great class for a cohort to have.

Favoured Soul too strong? That's an interesting discussion topic there. They've got several areas of weakness that a cleric doesn't have:

* No proficiency in heavy armour
* Spells dependent on both Charisma and Wisdom. (That's a big hit).
* Fewer spells known than the cleric (another big hit).
* Slower acquisition of high-level spells.
* No domains

I've always perceived the sorcerer as being inferior to the wizard due to the limitation on spells known. When it comes to the Favoured Soul vs. Cleric, the comparison is even worse - because whilst a wizard doesn't normally have access to all wizard spells, the cleric does have access to all cleric spells - reducing that to only a handful of each level is a severe drawback.

Then too, the Wis/Cha spell dependency is a pain. Needing a 19 in one ability score just to be able to cast spells and needing a 26 in another for superior DCs? Ouch. All this implies that their melee combat skills are getting a battering.

Cheers!

 

[Caliber]

* Spells dependent on both Charisma and Wisdom. (That's a big hit).

Hrm. I seem to have missed THAT part of the class description, and I agree that would help with the balance.

It seemed to me that the Favored Soul was giving up: Turning Ability, Domains, and Heavy Armor.

He was gaining: Energy Resistance 10 in three Energy Types of his choice (who isn't going to pick Fire, Cold, and Electricity?) as well as Flight. Don't forget that he has a good Fort, Ref, AND Will save.

The dual ability score casting makes that less attractive, and I did consider the disparity between Wizards vs Sorcerors and Clerics vs Favored Souls.

I'll think about it some more ...

As for Healers being a good NPC class ... maybe. My girlfriend (upon seeing the class) instantly announced she wanted to play one. She normally plays a Cleric anyway, so a Healer isn't too much of a stretch, just more focused on how she normally plays her Clerics anyway. Although I don't like the roleplaying restrictions on the Healer's armor worn ... didn't they learn that was a bad idea with Druids?

The Marshal, on the other hand, seems to be a pretty good NPC class. I mean, a sub-combatant whose only real abilities are the boosting of allies. Doesn't seem TOO attractive ('least to me ... I generally don't like support roles anyway).

 

[Stormborn]

I agree that the Favored Soul seems a little overpowered, especially when you consider that it, and other classes like it, are essentially Divine Sorcerers. However, I don't think its so overpowered it would cause serious problems.

Personally, I want to play a Warmage because it has inspired a fit of creativity in me to develop a system of War Colleges and reasons they might exist (which in typical Stormborn fashion has led to a whole world that is distracting me from things like work and the game I am supposed to be preping to run). Sure, its not nearlly as adaptable as a Wizard but in a Dungeon Crawl Campaign it seems a stronger choice than Sorcerer.

Someone called the Healer class the "girlfriend" class. I guess Caliber's SO proves the point.

Marshal seems OK, but I can't see any reason anyone in my group would play one. For the support abilities Bard seems like a better choice. But I can see that it is a possible alterantive to a multiclassed Fighter/Bard and in the right setting it will probablly work better.

I doubt the book has been around long enough for any real campaigning, but has any one actually played any of these classes? Or been in a campaing with any of them?

Overall I like the book, although I agree with many of the criticisms that it really isn't a good mass combat book (but is it supposed to be?) and that a lot of it seems like bits of other books cobbled together.

 

[MerricB]

Hrm. I seem to have missed THAT part of the class description, and I agree that would help with the balance.

It seemed to me that the Favored Soul was giving up: Turning Ability, Domains, and Heavy Armor.

He was gaining: Energy Resistance 10 in three Energy Types of his choice (who isn't going to pick Fire, Cold, and Electricity?) as well as Flight. Don't forget that he has a good Fort, Ref, AND Will save.

As opposed to the Cleric, who has good Fort and Will saves.

Really, once you look at the levels that they gain their special abilities, you begin to realise that they're not that great. Flight is a minor ability by the time they get it; the Energy resistances are nice, but pale into insignificance against the amount of damage they'll be taking at that level from more conventional means.

As for Healers being a good NPC class ... maybe. My girlfriend (upon seeing the class) instantly announced she wanted to play one. She normally plays a Cleric anyway, so a Healer isn't too much of a stretch, just more focused on how she normally plays her Clerics anyway. Although I don't like the roleplaying restrictions on the Healer's armor worn ... didn't they learn that was a bad idea with Druids?

Druids still have the armour restriction, they lost the weapon restriction. In the case of Healers, it makes a lot more sense from a RP perspective.

Someone called the Healer class the "girlfriend" class. I guess Caliber's SO proves the point.

It was the WotC playtesters, IIRC. There is a definite niche for the class. It really isn't a standard dungeon-delving/hack'n'slash sort of class, and is a real departure for D&D.

I doubt the book has been around long enough for any real campaigning, but has any one actually played any of these classes? Or been in a campaing with any of them?

Not yet, but my players are getting very excited about the Warmage and the Healer. The former as a PC, the latter as a cohort.

I personally would love to play a Marshal. It does a different job than the bard - in fact, its BAB isn't that bad when its Major Aura is taken into account.

Cheers!